News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[Fanta]

8 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Doesn’t look like this is ending anytime soon. Any thought of a negotiated peace deal isn’t going to happen as long as Russia demands to hold onto area it’s taken in this invasion

That’s a bummer if Ukraine doesn’t agree to let the territories go (if only for a short while). Ukraine could do with a breather to build their military up so they can later go back to kick the Kremlin Krew all the way back to Moscow. 

[oldschooler]

2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I didn’t say they were lying. Being prudent with the selected information given to them and presenting a biased agenda is far more realistic in a time to war. Your average US politician can’t be trusted from one day to the next and you they can be trusted now? Point in case - Afghanistan - “Money well spent and everything going so well that we can leave them to take care of themselves now.” Liars.  Mission failed successfully. 

I certainly don’t pay attention to politicians below Minister level or to MSM unless they have recognized expert or minister speaking directly. 
I refer only to such Western sources. 

[oldschooler]

Just now, Fanta said:

That’s a bummer if Ukraine doesn’t agree to let the territories go (if only for a short while). Ukraine could do with a breather to build their military up so they can later go back to kick the Kremlin Krew all the way back to Moscow. 

Ukraine has no obvious need now to ever give up territory to Russia or give any breather for Russia to regroup.

[Fanta]

2 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

I certainly don’t pay attention to politicians below Minister level or to MSM unless they have recognized expert or minister speaking directly. 
I refer only to such Western sources

All dragged up from the bottom of the same bucket, only difference is their proximity to the surface.

[oldschooler]

3 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

I certainly don’t pay attention to politicians below Minister level or to MSM unless they have recognized expert or minister speaking directly. 
I refer only to such Western sources. 

Speaking on a specific topic and withholding key information counts as “lying” to any rational person. I would never trust or listen again to such type.

[oldschooler]

2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

All dragged up from the bottom of the same bucket, only difference is their proximity to the surface.

Now you really are talking nonsense …again. True certainly for all tyrannies but definitely NOT the West

Implying falsely that true accountable legitimate Western sources/ institutes/ former NATO commanders / analysts/ ministers are all “shit”. Just obvious Rubbish & sadly Unworthy of you. 

[EdwardV]

7 minutes ago, Fanta said:

How does Russia sell all these weapons that cannot hit the side of a barn? And they launching dumb bombs from inside Russia? Are these brainless missiles also without a GPS and targeting system? Clearly not. 

A missile isn’t a dumb bomb, never said they were launching dumb bombs from inside Russia. How does Russia sell all those weapons? Easy they are cheap. Of course the missiles have GPS, it’s why some of them actually hit their targets. However you can’t set a GPS targeting system to hit a moving object. 
 

I’m not saying Russia isn’t degrading Ukraine’s ability to move supplies. However at the same time Russia isn’t going to do so in a major way without flying a whole lot of missions deep into Ukraine on a daily basis. Rail lines are pretty easy to fix, same with roads. Bridges not so much, but even they can be given more time. Ukraine is a big country with a lot of infrastructure and redundant built into the system. It will be into see how it plays out 

[Faraday]

A reply to a deleted moderated post has been removed.

Moderator

[billywillyjones]

This is a totally unnecessary tragic war that should never have taken place.  Both Putin and Zalensky need need their head examined perhaps on a pole.  And Nato needs to be disbanded if it continues unnecessary expansion.  It has become a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Fanta]

21 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Do we actually know there were 4.5K defenders in Mariupol? We were told up to just a couple of days ago there was still 1K defenders left yet less than 300 came out

“Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said Wednesday that a total of 959 Ukrainian soldiers, including 80 wounded, had laid down their arms and surrendered since May 16. “

It appears that the majority of them won’t see Ukraine again any time soon.

“Ukraine said it expects to carry out an exchange of Russian prisoners of war for the severely injured soldiers.”

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-18-22/index.html

 

 

 

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, billywillyjones said:

This is a totally unnecessary tragic war that should never have taken place.  Both Putin and Zalensky need need their head examined perhaps on a pole.  And Nato needs to be disbanded if it continues unnecessary expansion.  It has become a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Childish simplistic naive drivel attracting “ likes” from the usual anti -western pro- Russian ( western) crowd.

[Fanta]

24 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Childish simplistic naive drivel attracting “ likes” from the usual anti -western pro- Russian ( western) crowd.

Not everyone hates everyone. 

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said Wednesday that a total of 959 Ukrainian soldiers, including 80 wounded, had laid down their arms and surrendered since May 16. “

Mixed reports have emerged concerning the number of Ukrainian personnel that were evacuated from the plant upon its surrender, as early estimates put the figure between a few hundred and 1,000, Ukraine's military said.The latest figure comes as DPR’s own report from the previous day said: "256 Ukrainian militants had surrendered."

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-separatists-900-ukrainian-troops-surrendered-azovstal.amp
 

I’m guessing the larger number sounds better so it got changed. You have to love authoritarian governments. Every number is subject to change depending on whether it makes them look better or not. 

[EdwardV]

The pivotal Nordic countries of Finland and Sweden formally applied to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization Wednesday, amid Russia's continuing invasion of Ukraine. NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg told reporters that the treaty organization had formally accepted the applications, which have been in development over the past week.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/finland-sweden-official-applications-nato-russia-ukraine.amp

Its getting harder to find anything that hasn’t backfired on Putin concerning the invasion. The original excuse was to keep NATO from Russia’s border, well now they have 800 more miles of it. It times you almost have to wonder if he’s working for Russia or NATO?  

 

[birdman]

8 hours ago, Fanta said:

They need to show some return on investment for all those expensive Western supplied weapons. Let’s hope it is enough to reverse the Russian offensive. 

That is a very interesting opinion,

Some people see this war as something that was bound to happen sooner

or later.

Maybe the West(i call them this for this purpose)is actually happy the fight is contained

where it is.

So is Russia?

Sure it does cost a lot of money and lives but it happens far away from home for most people.

It looks like Putin is getting his xss kicked but the fight is not over yet. Money is pouring into the Ukraine and so are weapons.It would be a lot more costly for all parties except the Ukraine of course if the fight got extended into other countries.

I do not think Putin has the balls or the manpower to go into any other country.If he does NATO will quickly send in their air force and wipe out the Russian army.

What options does Putin have? Not many i think.As long as the fighting stays where it is no one will consider nukes.

After the war the Ukraine will receive massive support from the EU and the US to rebuild the country and of course they will try to make Russia pay for it.

In the end it will be viewed as one of the better options.I truly feel for the Ukrainian people who did not ask for this terrible tragedy to happen to them.

I think the West is as much to blame for this as is Putin.

[Fester]

52 minutes ago, birdman said:

That is a very interesting opinion,

Some people see this war as something that was bound to happen sooner

or later.

Maybe the West(i call them this for this purpose)is actually happy the fight is contained

where it is.

So is Russia?

Sure it does cost a lot of money and lives but it happens far away from home for most people.

It looks like Putin is getting his xss kicked but the fight is not over yet. Money is pouring into the Ukraine and so are weapons.It would be a lot more costly for all parties except the Ukraine of course if the fight got extended into other countries.

I do not think Putin has the balls or the manpower to go into any other country.If he does NATO will quickly send in their air force and wipe out the Russian army.

What options does Putin have? Not many i think.As long as the fighting stays where it is no one will consider nukes.

After the war the Ukraine will receive massive support from the EU and the US to rebuild the country and of course they will try to make Russia pay for it.

In the end it will be viewed as one of the better options.I truly feel for the Ukrainian people who did not ask for this terrible tragedy to happen to them.

I think the West is as much to blame for this as is Putin.

Like a runaway train on a spur line......going well then crashed at the end.

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, birdman said:

That is a very interesting opinion,

Some people see this war as something that was bound to happen sooner

or later.

Maybe the West(i call them this for this purpose)is actually happy the fight is contained

where it is.

So is Russia?

Sure it does cost a lot of money and lives but it happens far away from home for most people.

It looks like Putin is getting his xss kicked but the fight is not over yet. Money is pouring into the Ukraine and so are weapons.It would be a lot more costly for all parties except the Ukraine of course if the fight got extended into other countries.

I do not think Putin has the balls or the manpower to go into any other country.If he does NATO will quickly send in their air force and wipe out the Russian army.

What options does Putin have? Not many i think.As long as the fighting stays where it is no one will consider nukes.

After the war the Ukraine will receive massive support from the EU and the US to rebuild the country and of course they will try to make Russia pay for it.

In the end it will be viewed as one of the better options.I truly feel for the Ukrainian people who did not ask for this terrible tragedy to happen to them.

I think the West is as much to blame for this as is Putin.

Russia needed to be dealt with.

Yes, Ukraine was always going to get wrecked by Russia so that needed to be used by NATO to break & reduce Russia there militarily and with resultant economic sanctions.

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Not everyone hates everyone. 

Anti- west westerners are contemptible traitors, despised by all. “useful idiots” & gullible fools unworthy of “ hate”. 

How strange, once unmasked, rejected & mocked (like Corbyn), they don’t bugger off to live in their beloved tyrannical “socialist” gangster lands.  

[Poolie]

Crank.

[billywillyjones]

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Childish simplistic naive drivel attracting “ likes” from the usual anti -western pro- Russian ( western) crowd.

Lol you really don't have  clue what you are talking about.  Old schooler needs to go back to school lol.

[billywillyjones]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

Anti- west westerners are contemptible traitors, despised by all. “useful idiots” & gullible fools unworthy of “ hate”. 

How strange, once unmasked, rejected & mocked (like Corbyn), they don’t bugger off to live in their beloved tyrannical “socialist” gangster lands.  

Nothing to do with lef ot right the issue is about the preservation of the planet.  Nato stooges are as quick to grab their guns as the Russians they criticize.  This is not child 's play.  We are entering territory where only fools go.  Russian has Nuclear capability.  Have you every heard of the Cuban missile crisis?  I don't think so.

[Fester]

11 minutes ago, billywillyjones said:

Nothing to do with lef ot right the issue is about the preservation of the planet.  Nato stooges are as quick to grab their guns as the Russians they criticize.  This is not child 's play.  We are entering territory where only fools go.  Russian has Nuclear capability.  Have you every heard of the Cuban missile crisis?  I don't think so.

Hang on, I'll get your soapbox.

[EdwardV]

22 minutes ago, billywillyjones said:

Russian has Nuclear capability.

Besides the fact Putin has shown no inclination that he is either crazy or suicidal, both of which would be needed to release nuclear weapons. To what end would he use them? What possible advantage would Russia get out of the use of nuclear weapons? Drop them on a NATO country? That's committing suicide. Drop them on Ukraine? What does that get you? The Ukrainian forces are dispersed, you wouldn't kill enough of them to change the course of the war. Never mind the resulting NATO forward deployment and massive conventional strike. Drop one in a remote area, say out at sea? Ok, an escalation and warning to back off and let Russia finish the job? Besides the fact at this point it doesn't appear Russia is capable of finishing the job even if NATO backed off. There is no guarantee the eastern nations would follow suit and instead keep supplying Ukraine with weapons on their own. After all, they know what happens after Ukraine. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, just there isn't much logic behind the use. 

Keeping in mind even if Putin ordered the use, doesn't mean it happens. The Russian generals know if they follow through, there is a good chance they are committing suicide at worse, or end up in front of a war crimes tribunal at best. The better option at that point is Putin coming down with a 9mm headache. 

[Crazy-Ruskie]

Slowly the truth is starting to emerge in Russia no matter how hard they try to brainwash their population.

A retired colonel strongly criticized Russia in live tv:

"We have turned the global population against us..."

"Our leadership has threatened other countries with nuclear weapons too many times and now they have turned on us...."

"We will be losing in Ukraine as weapons arrive and they have a strong will to defend their country..."

"The situation for us will frankly get worse..."

Wow, their actually is intelligence in Russia. As more and more reveal the truth this horrific war Russia has started will eventually end as the leaders and war criminals In Russia eventually get held accountable.

 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, billywillyjones said:

Nothing to do with lef ot right the issue is about the preservation of the planet.  Nato stooges are as quick to grab their guns as the Russians they criticize.  This is not child 's play.  We are entering territory where only fools go.  Russian has Nuclear capability.  Have you every heard of the Cuban missile crisis?  I don't think so.

NATO doing fine so far. Prevented Russia re- occupying east Europe. Your weak pacifist surrender mode would doom is all. 

NATO is so bad that every free European nation threatened by Russia wants to join ! I prefer their better judgement to your naivety & vague generalities. We are “entering territory” where Russia had led us by unjustly invading Ukraine.

NATO should disband itself & not support east Europe ? Yes, I know . ….because NATO makes the tyrant unhappy perhaps? That’s their job and how they protect Free Europe

How would Europe be protected against Russia menace without NATO?