News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[EdwardV]

31 minutes ago, Fanta said:

The last of the Avostal defenders have been evacuated.

That’s good to hear. I too would use the word surrender, it’s appropriate.
 

That said their mission is complete. They successfully tied up almost two dozen Russian battalions until just a couple of weeks ago. Also kept Putin from having something to crow about at the parade. The second accomplishment isn’t much, but the first one was huge. 

[Fester]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Zelenskiy had appointed Major General Ihor Tantsyura to take over from Yuriy Halushkin as commander of the Territorial Defence Guard (Ukraine’s Army Reserves). A rare admission of losses by Ukraine seems to be part of these  cause.

”The explosive growth of the structure, especially in conditions of intense combat, is a huge experience, (with)mistakes and achievements. There are successes and, unfortunately, losses,” the ministry said in a statement”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_Defense_Forces_(Ukraine)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-military-zelenskiy/ukraines-president-replaces-head-of-territorial-defence-forces-idUSKCN2N20WQ 

Seems to be? I'll just assume you're making stuff up again.

[Fester]

6 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

  "The Danish fleet could not be allowed to fall into Napoleons hands".... 

 (So therefore the ever-disgusting British empire had to take them instead. Did you even know that Denmakr-Norway was NEUTRAL in this conflict?

   What you are espousing is the typical disgusting Anglo-American arrogance and you even are defending this on a moral high ground!! It is to vomit over. The entire coastline of Norway up to the Russian border were embargoed and plagued by British privateers, which looted villages, killed people, raped women, stole livestock and destroyed communities. Even today, there are countless histories of this over entire Norway. 

   Thank You for reminding me the need to stand up to the utter arrogance and fascist behavior of the (Thank God) fading UK empire. May it rot furher. 

   The Christmas three tradition is a mere gesture from the Royal house,, which has recent historical ties to England due to the old-old kings marriage to a British royalty. AS disgusting and transparanet as it gets. 

 So you are saying that because our politicians send some symbolic tribute to London, the Russian sacrifices of 40000+ soldiers in the campaign to liberate East-Finmark is not ntoeworthy?

    First of all, Russians have nice enough Christmas trees themselves to supply superior decorations and the Russian people have never bothered about phony symbolism. Secondly, I can ensure you that there are hundreds of vital commemorations and markings towards RUssia for what they did during WW2 for us. It is very unlikely my family line would have existed if it were not for the Red army in 1944. Most the UK did to Norway was destroy  our civillian shipping infrastructure (They were typically too cowardly to sink regularly defended German shipping of magnitude) and make life for the civilian population even worse. 

    You portray it as if we Norwegians cater to your shallow of shallowest depiction of Russia bad, let us kiss some more anglo ass. Our politicians are being pressured immensely by EU, Western economies and not the least USA to get ready to bleed for the empire. It is very hard for even one reasonable dissenter  to come out.  However, having said that, if you know people from Trondheim and North, it is not ignorant poodles you find here, but simply people who very well know that USA and UK have nothing good at store for them in case of a conflict and would happily defend us (To the last Norwegian). 

   Everything USA touches turns into death and decay. The UK is mostly insignificant today, but they seem to have an urge to splay their relevance now and then, clearly with the same over-inflated self-importance as you are stating above. 

     I don't support Russia in any war they are waging, but neither is it OUR war to fight against them. You want to fight Russia go on your own and Please stop dragging others into it. 

You'll have to take up all your complaints with the Norwegian government, who still have not quit NATO.

How did the Cold Response exercise go, anyway? You know the one where Norway and its allies exercised in defending Norway against external threats? It was planned way before the war in Ukraine. 

[Fanta]

13 minutes ago, Fester said:

Seems to be? I'll just assume you're making stuff up again.

Mistakes and losses.

The press office in Ukraine didn’t even thank the general for his service. Only sacked him and dissed him. 

Mistakes and losses.

[EdwardV]

19 minutes ago, Transam said:

Well, well, well, it seems Heir Putin really has ruffled more feathers than he thought he ever would......

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/neutral-switzerland-leans-closer-nato-response-russia-2022-05-15/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=twitter

From the article:

Vladimir Khokhlov, spokesman for the Russian embassy in Bern, said such measures would amount to a radical change of policy for Switzerland. Moscow would "not be able to ignore" an eventual renunciation of neutrality, which would have consequences, Khokhlov said. He did not provide further details.

You would think after Finland and Sweden, Russia would learn to keep its mouth shut. When they speak, they only make things worse. 
 

High level talks with NATO only makes sense and is pretty small potatoes. Russia should care less. Backfilling is more but not by much. Honestly it was kinda silly for them to object to Germany sendings it’s 35mm anti aircraft ammo to Ukraine. If they had such an issue with it being used, why did they sell it to Germany in the first place? If it was Germany needing to use it, would they still object? Of course it made the Brazilian’s happy so that’s something. 

[EdwardV]

Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, a close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, has called on members of a Russian-led military alliance to unite, as he accused the West of prolonging the conflict in Ukraine to weaken Moscow.

Speaking at a summit of the leaders of the Collective Security Treaty Organisation (CSTO) in Moscow, Lukashenko said “hellish sanctions” against his country and Russia could have been avoided if the group had spoken with one voice.

“Without a united front, the collective West will build up pressure on the post-Soviet space,” Lukashenko said, addressing President Putin and the leaders of Armenia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/5/16/belarus-urges-russia-led-military-alliance-to-unite-against-west

Besides the absurdity of blaming the West for prolonging the war, when it’s the choice of Russia alone. Russia drawing those four countries as support is like getting dealt black aces and eights in poker. 

 

[Fanta]

Only Armenia can afford more than 3 different vowels so I think we are safe for now. They’d be a tough opponent at Scrabble but I think that’s about it.

 

[vlad]

Most of the Troops evacuated from the Avostal works are the injured 1s whats worrying is they were taken to russian held areas where im sure they will be given the best medical treatment 

[Fanta]

18 minutes ago, vlad said:

Most of the Troops evacuated from the Avostal works are the injured 1s whats worrying is they were taken to russian held areas where im sure they will be given the best medical treatment 

Most? As usual, you exaggerate for effect. 
264 soldiers surrendered of which 53 are wounded. This is the same “evacuation” you dismissed as lies and fake news. The wounded have been transferred to a hospital, the balance to another area to be exchanged for Russian POWs. How many will be exchanged remains the question as allegation of war crimes have been lodged against them. 
https://kyivindependent.com/national/264-azovstal-defenders-evacuated-to-russian-controlled-territory-promised-medical-treatment/

[vlad]

15 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Most? As usual, you exaggerate for effect. 
264 soldiers surrendered of which 53 are wounded. This is the same “evacuation” you dismissed as lies and fake news. The wounded have been transferred to a hospital, the balance to another area to be exchanged for Russian POWs. How many will be exchanged remains the question as allegation of war crimes have been lodged against them. 
https://kyivindependent.com/national/264-azovstal-defenders-evacuated-to-russian-controlled-territory-promised-medical-treatment/

And you believe they will be treated fairly? Some fighters are still inside it has not been a full evacuation as you say only 50 odd have been brought out and there only the injured 1s so yes i stick to my remark its a lie that ALL have been allowed to leave.

[Fester]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Mistakes and losses.

The press office in Ukraine didn’t even thank the general for his service. Only sacked him and dissed him. 

Mistakes and losses.

There's a very annoying echo wherever you are.

[oldschooler]

7 hours ago, Fanta said:

Zelenskiy had appointed Major General Ihor Tantsyura to take over from Yuriy Halushkin as commander of the Territorial Defence Guard (Ukraine’s Army Reserves). A rare admission of losses by Ukraine seems to be part of these  cause.

”The explosive growth of the structure, especially in conditions of intense combat, is a huge experience, (with)mistakes and achievements. There are successes and, unfortunately, losses,” the ministry said in a statement”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_Defense_Forces_(Ukraine)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-military-zelenskiy/ukraines-president-replaces-head-of-territorial-defence-forces-idUSKCN2N20WQ 

Great Losses in any War are normal for both sides. Ukraine making a simple notice of leader change. Yet your instinctive interpretation  as “admission of failure” is negative and unevidenced. 

[Fanta]

34 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Yet your instinctive interpretation  as “admission of failure” is negative and unevidenced. 

I prefer realistic and obvious. Mentioning mistakes and losses in the same statement as sacking a general was just a coincidence? Try justification. Ukrainians are human you know. They make mistakes. 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

I prefer realistic and obvious. Mentioning mistakes and losses in the same statement as sacking a general was just a coincidence? Try justification. Ukrainians are human you know. They make mistakes. 

Ukrainians Open & Honest Here.

Pointless Denying Losses in this Satellite & Media Age. 

Russians staying silent & actively concealing their losses. 

[oldschooler]

5 hours ago, Fanta said:

Mistakes and losses.

The press office in Ukraine didn’t even thank the general for his service. Only sacked him and dissed him. 

Mistakes and losses.

Inevitable . So What ? Ukraine have been well prepared by NATO for this for eight years . Ukraine a NATO level Large Army now. Will never be defeated by savage backward Russians at 1930s army level. A Joke .

[Alavan]

12 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

The entire coastline of Norway up to the Russian border were embargoed and plagued by British privateers, which looted villages, killed people, raped women, stole livestock and destroyed communities. Even today, there are countless histories of this over entire Norway. 

Napoleon's time? That was 200 years ago.
Why don't you bring those privateers to court for killing, raping, stealing?
Oh, and to be correct also include those viking who did the same 1000 years before.

You can't be taken serious but it is fun to have something to laugh at.

[Fanta]

20 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Pointless Denying Losses in this Satellite & Media Age. 

Ukraine admitting losses? Only those which are undeniable and not even then. At least 4,500 + reinforcements were in Mariupol and didn’t come out. Last month Zelenskyy claimed only 2,500-3,000 total killed in all of Ukraine. Maybe they dropped a 0 off the end… 

Why not ask a Ukrainian government minister? 

Of course, we have these numbers. I know them almost precisely, but I won’t name any, until the end of the war… We’re suffering losses, and they are considerable. They’re much smaller than the Russian ones, but they aren’t small”

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3443116-ukraine-not-to-reveal-own-military-death-toll-until-war-ends.html

Go find an image of a destroyed Ukrainian tank. Good luck with that.

[Rookiescot]

8 hours ago, Fanta said:

The last of the Avostal defenders have been evacuated.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-17/mariupol-ukraine-troop-evacuation-azovstal-steelworks/101072336

For those that don’t believe that MSM is pushing propaganda, please note that the word ”surrender” is never mentioned in the article. Apparently laying down arms and being marched out into enemy hands to be taken to enemy held territory is deemed an evacuation. At least they are safe now.

 

But you always claimed Zelensky was stopping them from surrendering. 

[oldschooler]

4 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Ukraine admitting losses? Only those which are undeniable and not even then. At least 4,500 + reinforcements were in Mariupol and didn’t come out. Last month Zelenskyy claimed only 2,500-3,000 total killed in all of Ukraine. Maybe they dropped a 0 off the end… 

Why not ask a Ukrainian government minister? 

Of course, we have these numbers. I know them almost precisely, but I won’t name any, until the end of the war… We’re suffering losses, and they are considerable. They’re much smaller than the Russian ones, but they aren’t small”

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3443116-ukraine-not-to-reveal-own-military-death-toll-until-war-ends.html

Go find an image of a destroyed Ukrainian tank. Good luck with that.

Of course neither side will ever publish true losses during wartime. NATO  estimates available. Russian military deaths as incompetent aggressor running at minimum 15,000. So at 3 to 1 as attacking force against obvious NATO level Defence, I would then estimate Ukrainian forces losses at 5,000. Can’t be any near your ridiculous comedy figure of 25,000. 
 

[oldschooler]

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

But you always claimed Zelensky was stopping them from surrendering. 

He said “Azov Nazis” holding them hostage  as human shields ? 

[Fanta]

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

But you always claimed Zelensky was stopping them from surrendering. 

Read the title of the topic. You might learn something.

[Fanta]

4 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Defence, I would then estimate Ukrainian forces losses at 5,000

4,500 + reinforcements in Mariupol DEAD means maybe 1,000 dead in the rest of Ukraine? Ridiculous. Even TIME, a bastion of MSM, disagrees..

“Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense is not releasing combat casualty numbers to maintain morale, but experts believe it has lost at least 25,000 troops — up to 11,000 deaths and 18,000 wounded —since the February 24 invasion. Over two and a half months into the war, Ukraine’s losses are at least 10% of their now undoubtedly exhausted army of under 250,000.”

https://time.com/6176748/ukraine-war-economy/

 

[Rookiescot]

13 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Read the title of the topic. You might learn something.

So they have either surrendered or they have not surrendered.

Which one is it?

[Fanta]

Just now, Rookiescot said:

So they have either surrendered or they have not surrendered.

Which one is it?

Are you incapable of clicking any of the links already provided? I am not your servant. 

[Rookiescot]

20 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

He said “Azov Nazis” holding them hostage  as human shields ? 

Yeah he claimed that about the civilians sheltering there. He was of course wrong about that.