News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[Fanta]

4 minutes ago, Fester said:

It's hard to tell for sure but who is really going to benefit from this "special military operation"? Nobody.

China.

[Fester]

3 hours ago, Fanta said:

Too late to roll back in Ukraine. But advancing into Europe? Russia’s military isn’t strong enough to take & hold Europe and it would be borderline suicidal. Winnie the Pooh would have to either join Russia against the West or abandon Russia. Russia cannot risk losing the support of China, it’s biggest ally, and China cannot sit on the fence if Europe is attacked. MSM might portray Putin as a lunatic but no-one says he is stupid.

Russia has already risked losing the support of China by screwing up so badly. 

[Fanta]

1 minute ago, Fester said:

Russia has already risked losing the support of China by screwing up so badly. 

Russia and China signed a “no limits” pact during the Beijing Olympics, days before the invasion. A Russia more economically dependent on China is a win. Russian support for future Chinese aggression against Taiwan is a win. China says Win Win, we love America! 

[Marble-eye]

12 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I don’t want Russia to win. I simply don’t want Ukraine to lose everything. What worries you is not my concern. 1 million+ Ukrainian citizens have fled to Russia. That’s 20% of all the refugees to date. If you think Kyiv has Ukraine’s undivided support you are mistaken. I would tell the Marines and the remnants of the Azov Regiment trapped underground in Mariupol to force the civilians to leave. It is the soldiers choice if they want to either surrender or fight to the death and at least the soldiers have a choice. Don’t worry, the democratic world won’t forget Ukraine the same as they forgot the people of North Korea, Vietnam,  Afghanistan and Syria to name a few. Not because of your idealistic notion of justice but simply because Ukraine borders Russia and is a useful thorn in Russia’s side that can be prodded and poked at will. 

"I got a friend named Rambling Bob."

Total obfuscation, why can't you understand that if Ukraine surrenders that they will lose everything, I don't suppose for one minute that they are enjoying losing their lives, having their buildings bombed and women assaulted by Putins barbarians. 

You try to make everything so wonderful, all that the Ukrainians have to do is surrender and their lives will be so much better, well there is nothing better than freedom and the only way that is achieved is by fighting for it. Believe you me the Ukranians are not ready to capitulate to slavery or to be wiped off the face of the worlds maps like some posters would have them do. 

[Fanta]

12 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

"I got a friend named Rambling Bob."

Total obfuscation, why can't you understand that if Ukraine surrenders that they will lose everything, I don't suppose for one minute that they are enjoying losing their lives, having their buildings bombed and women assaulted by Putins barbarians. 

You try to make everything so wonderful, all that the Ukrainians have to do is surrender and their lives will be so much better, well there is nothing better than freedom and the only way that is achieved is by fighting for it. Believe you me the Ukranians are not ready to capitulate to slavery or to be wiped off the face of the worlds maps like some posters would have them do. 

I now know how the The Flash must feel when playing Whackamole.

A negotiated ceasefire and subsequent peace is not a surrender. As I have said before, I think Ukraine can come out of this war with more international support and stronger in the long run then before they went into it. The only alternative to peace is for Ukraine to fight for total victory and that also brings the possibility of total defeat and unconditional surrender. Do you honestly believe Ukraine will win a prolonged war against Russia? And 20% of the Ukrainian refugees appear to support Russia so not all Ukrainians believe the myth that they will be forced into slavery. It is better to live to fight another day than to end up in a box for the amusement of the crowd. 

[Marble-eye]

2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I now know how the The Flash must feel when playing Whackamole.

A negotiated ceasefire and subsequent peace is not a surrender. The only alternative to peace is for Ukraine to fight for total victory and that also brings the possibility of total defeat and unconditional surrender. Do you honestly believe Ukraine will win a prolonged war against Russia? And 20% of the Ukrainian refugees appear to support Russia so not all Ukrainians believe the myth that they will be forced into slavery. It is better to live to fight another day than to end up in a box for the amusement of the crowd. 

I read the first few lines, the ones past the insult and that was enough.

"Negotiated ceasefire" with 'I give you my word Putin'. . Please tell me your joking.

[Vigo]

On 4/30/2022 at 2:48 PM, Fanta said:

Can you explain away the 55,969 police recorded rapes in England and Wales last year? You might find your explanation is the answer you seek. 
https://www.statista.com/statistics/283100/recorded-rape-offences-in-england-and-wales/ 

The situation in the UK has no relevance here. UK has not invaded Ukraine and let loose violent depraved sexual predators. The Russian military has an obligation of protection to the civilian population  and to maintain discipline within its military ranks. Please do not excuse Russian rape crime.

[Vigo]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

The winners do.

Russia can sustain a war just across from it’s borders far longer than Ukraine can. Money is not a stifling issue - Winnie the Pooh will lend a few yuan to Russia. Conventional weapons availability is also not an issue for Russia the second biggest exporter of weapons in the world. By the time Russia uses half of the stockpile they have been building since 2017 Ukraine would already resemble a crater. Home ground advantage is great but Ukraine has “only” 440,000 soldiers maximum - the rest are untrained recruits. The majority of the Ukrainian Air Force is scrap metal and the majority of it’s Navy has been converted to submarines. Keep in mind that if this continues without a serious attempt at peace it becomes a fight for survival for Ukraine but not for Russia. Russia pulls back across it’s borders and wakes up it’s nuke operators along the way. 

You assume alot.  Russian young men with missing limbs and other vital bits will soon be going home once they are released from military "hospitals". Eventually, the death count will come out. Once Putin declares his war, he will be able to force the urban conscripts to the front and will call upon the  military who have so far remained behind in comfortable Russia out of the Ukraine cold.

The catch is that unlike the  Siberian and far east conscripts deployed to the Ukraine, the urban Russian kids like their luxuries and do not want to die in a war with the Ukraine. They wish to keep their body bits and pieces. Good luck on forcing 18-22 year old urban kids to endure nasty conditions and to fight a war they want nothing to do with. Yes, its fun to fly a helicopter, or drive a tank. No it's not fun to be burnt alive.   You assume that all will follow Putin. Young Russians will not follow if it means discomfort.

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Vigo

[Fanta]

10 minutes ago, Vigo said:

Please do not excuse Russian rape crime.

Not excusing then at all. Just offering some sort of perspective against the emotional claims by some that all Russian soldiers are looting, raping murderers. All groups of men have rogue elements but the exceptions are never the rule. 

[Fanta]

Vigo - it’s a numbers game. Do the maths.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1296573/russia-ukraine-military-comparison/

And China is helping and profiting nicely. 

[EdwardV]

28 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Russia and China signed a “no limits” pact during the Beijing Olympics, days before the invasion. A Russia more economically dependent on China is a win. Russian support for future Chinese aggression against Taiwan is a win. China says Win Win, we love America! 

The “pact” is meaningless, there is no honor among thieves. Why is Russia more economically dependent on China? They still have plenty to sell that the world needs. As you yourself pointed out, they will all come back after the war. China on the other hand doesn’t like to become dependent on any supplier, they like to diversify. I would argue Russia will benefit from its friendship with India more than China in the future. China doesn’t need Russian support to invade Taiwan. What support can Russia sully that China needs? Moral? Now that Russia is a pariah, they are a liability. 
 

If anything Russia has screwed everything up for China. 

[Fanta]

19 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

The “pact” is meaningless, there is no honor among thieves

Wars have been together based on far less. Your China comments deny the benefits to China that come from a more dependent Russia. China hasn’t even condemned the war and has voted against every sanction against Russia to date. For a country you claim is so dependent on good will from the West they sure aren’t towing the line. 

[Fester]

3 hours ago, Fanta said:

The winners do.

Russia can sustain a war just across from it’s borders far longer than Ukraine can. Money is not a stifling issue - Winnie the Pooh will lend a few yuan to Russia. Conventional weapons availability is also not an issue for Russia the second biggest exporter of weapons in the world. By the time Russia uses half of the stockpile they have been building since 2017 Ukraine would already resemble a crater. Home ground advantage is great but Ukraine has “only” 440,000 soldiers maximum - the rest are untrained recruits. The majority of the Ukrainian Air Force is scrap metal and the majority of it’s Navy has been converted to submarines. Keep in mind that if this continues without a serious attempt at peace it becomes a fight for survival for Ukraine but not for Russia. Russia pulls back across it’s borders and wakes up it’s nuke operators along the way. 

Too bad you feel that way, Sergei.

[Fester]

3 hours ago, Fanta said:

A realist is often seen as a bully boy by the stubborn who won’t face facts. Your outdated propaganda about Russia’s military simply doesn’t stack up to the ground lost by Ukraine. If Russia military is as poor as you believe then Ukraine’s military, after 7 years of US training and provisioning, is arguably far worse. How can you explain that?  My point about Russia and it’s nukes was to highlight that any advance into a beaten Russia is a road to nowhere, the same fate that awaits any Russian advance into Europe. 

More from The Daily Codswallop.

Ukraine’s military, after 7 years of allied training is far better than it was and it is proving that right now. 

[Fester]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

I don’t want Russia to win. I simply don’t want Ukraine to lose everything. What worries you is not my concern. 1 million+ Ukrainian citizens have fled to Russia. That’s 20% of all the refugees to date. If you think Kyiv has Ukraine’s undivided support you are mistaken. I would tell the Marines and the remnants of the Azov Regiment trapped underground in Mariupol to force the civilians to leave. It is the soldiers choice if they want to either surrender or fight to the death and at least the soldiers have a choice. Don’t worry, the democratic world won’t forget Ukraine the same as they forgot the people of North Korea, Vietnam,  Afghanistan and Syria to name a few. Not because of your idealistic notion of justice but simply because Ukraine borders Russia and is a useful thorn in Russia’s side that can be prodded and poked at will. 

You think all of your 20% had a choice of where they were allowed to "flee" to?

[Fanta]

6 minutes ago, Fester said:

Too bad you feel that way, Sergei.

Seeing is believing, Fartster.

[Fester]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

China.

Not necessarily. Mr. Xi seems unamused already.

[Fester]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Russia and China signed a “no limits” pact during the Beijing Olympics, days before the invasion. A Russia more economically dependent on China is a win. Russian support for future Chinese aggression against Taiwan is a win. China says Win Win, we love America! 

Yes, a very timely signing with a very limited life-span by the looks of it.   

[Smithydog]

13 hours ago, Del_SoL said:

So-called "sanctions"  again Russia did they approved by UN?

Sure not.

Western thief's in their bankruptcy  want to steal everything around.

No. Because they would be approved in the Security Council and Russia has the power to just veto any such move in that body. What a silly argument and justification for a debating position.

It is why countries are pushing for change in the veto to strengthen the powers of the UN. There is only one set of "thieves" here and that is Russia stealing the land of another country.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/26/un-approves-measure-requiring-states-to-justify-veto

 

[Fester]

52 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I now know how the The Flash must feel when playing Whackamole.

A negotiated ceasefire and subsequent peace is not a surrender. As I have said before, I think Ukraine can come out of this war with more international support and stronger in the long run then before they went into it. The only alternative to peace is for Ukraine to fight for total victory and that also brings the possibility of total defeat and unconditional surrender. Do you honestly believe Ukraine will win a prolonged war against Russia? And 20% of the Ukrainian refugees appear to support Russia so not all Ukrainians believe the myth that they will be forced into slavery. It is better to live to fight another day than to end up in a box for the amusement of the crowd. 

Do you honestly believe that Russia can be trusted to agree to a negotiated ceasefire and subsequent peace, after all the lies and atrocious behaviour seen from them already?

[Fester]

26 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Wars have been together based on far less. Your China comments deny the benefits to China that come from a more dependent Russia. China hasn’t even condemned the war and has voted against every sanction against Russia to date. For a country you claim is so dependent on good will from the West they sure aren’t towing the line. 

More sputum from the Cods columnist.

[oldschooler]

5 hours ago, Fanta said:

To depose Putin is an admission that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is a failure, the West is right, Russia was wrong and cannot handle the pressure from the West. Seriously? 

Yes of course. Above Reality is seriously damaging Russia more every day.

Ukraine is already physically & economically Wrecked. Absolute Zero Chance Now to fulfill Putins worst nightmare of Ukraine joining EU or NATO. So thats the third Putin war goal achieved. Never a military or economic threat to Russia, now not even Putin can continue with that deluded assertion.

Russian 2nd goal; hold an occupied pro- Russia east ukraine (which will never be surrendered whilst Russia continues to lose this war) whilst taking the present increasing economic,military & political damage is simply Impossible.Risk now far outweighs Reward for Russia in real rational terms.

Personally hoping war continues for much longer to necessarily reduce Russia to an economic / military/ political shell, also unable to maintain & operate reliable nuclear weapons.

[Fester]

11 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Seeing is believing, Fartster.

Damn. My true ID revealed. Well done.

How's things up at Meerkat Manor anyway, Sergei?

[oldschooler]

8 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

No. Because they would be approved in the Security Council and Russia has the power to just veto any such move in that body. What a silly argument and justification for a debating position.

It is why countries are pushing for change in the veto to strengthen the powers of the UN. There is only one set of "thieves" here and that is Russia stealing the land of another country.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/26/un-approves-measure-requiring-states-to-justify-veto

Russia must surely now be removed from UN Security Council.

Veto Problem Solved.  

[Fanta]

2 minutes ago, Fester said:

Do you honestly believe that Russia can be trusted to agree to a negotiated ceasefire and subsequent peace, after all the lies and atrocious behaviour seen from them already?

Russia doesn’t have to be trusted when other countries are co-signatories to any peace agreements. When/if security  agreements are signed between Ukraine and other countries Russia can expect a united military response from multiple countries against any further Russian aggression. A negotiated peace is a military and economic win for Ukraine. Will that happen? Who knows.