News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[Marble-eye]

58 minutes ago, Fanta said:

So now you believe that the civilians would be tortured and executed by the Russians? Because that is who we were talking about. The civilians. 

Only a fool would think otherwise. 

[Fanta]

1 minute ago, Marble-eye said:

Only a fool would think otherwise. 

Only a hater would believe it. 

[Marble-eye]

Just now, Fanta said:

Only a hater would believe it. 

Only a naive friend of Putin would believe anything the Russians say. 

But yes I do hate people that kill for pleasure. 

Your turn. 

 

[EdwardV]

26 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I think your real question is will NATO use the port blockade as an excuse to sink some Russian tugboats? 

Good question. I don’t think they will yet, but if we start seeing picture of dying kids in Africa and Arabs lighting themself on fire again that can change. 
 

Keep in mind Russia has a battle flotilla in the eastern Mediterranean to keep NATO from doing just that. It also needs the Turks to let them in and that might not happen?

[Fanta]

8 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

Only a naive friend of Putin would believe anything the Russians say. 

But yes I do hate people that kill for pleasure. 

Your turn. 

A picture is worth a thousand words.

[Marble-eye]

7 minutes ago, Fanta said:

A picture is worth a thousand words.

A thousand pictures would be a better description of the crimes the Russians have committed, the internet is full of them, try www.google.com if you don't believe me. 

[Rookiescot]

52 minutes ago, Fanta said:

By all means demand links on questionable statements but don’t question everything. You could have found that Geneva Convention info in 1 minute and then continued discussing the issue but instead you make a song and dance about it. Even liars tell the truth sometimes and crying wolf won’t work all the time. 

I am not here to fact check lies spread by Czar Putins apologists.

[Fanta]

27 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Keep in mind Russia has a battle flotilla in the eastern Mediterranean to keep NATO from doing just that. It also needs the Turks to let them in and that might not happen?

“For Turkey, Russia is a frenemy”

Turkey depends on Russia for about 50% of it’s gas needs. Turkey refused to close its airspace, however, to Russian flights. Turkey closed the Dardanelles and the Bosphorus on Feb. 28, a move endorsed by Russia following a Ukrainian request to close the Straits the day the war started.

https://www.mei.edu/publications/turkey-between-ukraine-and-russia 

Statement before the agreement by Russia to close Dardanelles Straits to the Russian navy.
The Turkish foreign minister has said Turkey cannot stop Russian warships accessing the Black Sea via its straits, as Ukraine has requested, due to a clause in an international pact.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/25/cannot-stop-russian-warships-returning-in-black-sea-turkey

I think Turkey won’t do anything concrete if Russian warships go for a cruise through the  straits. 

[Rookiescot]

The list of atrocities carried out by Czar Putin and his thugs is becoming somewhat lengthy. 

War crimes in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia

 

[Fanta]

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I am not here to fact check lies spread by Czar Putins apologists.

So don’t be surprised if your demands for links are ignored, as most of your inflammatory posts already are. Continue to claim the non replies as a win if that sounds good in your echo chamber, you do have company to keep amused in there. 

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, Fanta said:

So don’t be surprised if your demands for links are ignored, as most of your inflammatory posts already are. Continue to claim the non replies as a win if that sounds good in your echo chamber, you do have company to keep amused in there. 

Please feel free to ignore my posts.

[Marble-eye]

5 minutes ago, Fanta said:

So don’t be surprised if your demands for links are ignored, as most of your inflammatory posts already are. Continue to claim the non replies as a win if that sounds good in your echo chamber, you do have company to keep amused in there. 

Oh dear, getting angry are we because someone has called you out. 

[Fanta]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The list of atrocities carried out by Czar Putin and his thugs is becoming somewhat lengthy. 

War crimes in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia

Did you read the first sentence?

“This article is about individual actions during or after the Russian invasion that may be war crimes.”

Few people are denying that war crimes may be occurring. Less emotional people are waiting for the allegations to be proven in a court of international law not a court of public opinion. Label those people however you choose. “Sticks and stones…” 

[Fanta]

8 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

Oh dear, getting angry are we because someone has called you out

“Do not be bullied by bullies.” 

Nancy Pelosi - Kyiv 

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, Fanta said:

Did you read the first sentence?

“This article is about individual actions during or after the Russian invasion that may be war crimes.”

Few people are denying that war crimes may be occurring. Less emotional people are waiting for the allegations to be proven in a court of international law not a court of public opinion. Label those people however you choose. “Sticks and stones…” 

Except we have all seen the evidence with our own eyes.

Of course your job on here is to sow seeds of doubt regarding the veracity of those images and footage but most people will know what is the truth and what is deflection.

[Marble-eye]

17 minutes ago, Fanta said:

“Do not be bullied by bullies.” 

Nancy Pelosi - Kyiv 

You sometimes write gibberish very eloquently.

[EdwardV]

40 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Turkey refused to close its airspace, however, to Russian flights. 

Only to commercial flights, Turkey closed their airspace to Russian military flights. 
 

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/4/23/turkey-closes-airspace-to-russian-planes-flying-to-syria-fm

40 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Turkish foreign minister has said Turkey cannot stop Russian warships accessing the Black Sea via its straits, as Ukraine has requested, due to a clause in an international pact.

He said Turkey couldn’t close to returning Russian ships that were already home ported in the Black Sea. However Turkey did close the straits later to all war ships. 
 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkey-urges-respect-black-sea-straits-pact-after-closing-access-2022-03-01/

I don’t know if Turkey would in fact stop Russian war ships. It would be a huge risk to try. Warships are very easy to kill when traversing a strait. If you let Russian warships through, how do you stop NATO ones later? 

[Fanta]

14 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

If you let Russian warships through, how do you stop NATO ones later? 

Would Russia’s future plans be to claim the waters around the docks as being Russian waters so they can mine or blockade them all they want?  They are already preparing to hold “referendums”’ in the southern regions.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/22/russia-plans-to-hold-sham-independence-vote-in-southern-ukraine-zelenskiy-says 

btw: this old Ukrainian language map could partially explain why Russia might not have such a hard time with the residents or insurgents in their captured areas.

As this Ukrainian-language map illustrates, Ukrainian and Russian share overlap with Surzhyk (Yellow – West: Russian: 3.1%, Surzhyk: 2.5%, Ukrainian: 94.4%; Yellow – center Russian: 24.2%; Surzhyk: 14.6%; Ukrainian: 61.2%; Bright green – east-center: Russian: 46.4% Surzhyk: 21.7% Ukrainian: 31.9%; Teal – east Russian: 86.8% Surzhyk: 9.6% Ukrainian: 3.7%; Teal – south Russian: 82.3%; Surzhyk: 12.4%; Ukrainian: 5.2%). Wikimedia

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/ukraine-russia-explainer?commentpage=2#how 

 

[EdwardV]

17 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Would Russia’s future plans be to claim the waters around the docks as being Russian waters so they can mine or blockade them all they want?  They are already preparing to hold “referendums”’ in the southern regions.

I guess that’s one way to look at it. Pretty sure the Ukrainian’s would think otherwise. How do you mine the waters and blockade when Ukraine is going to shoot anti ship missiles at you? Problem is Odesa is the main port and it’s still in Ukrainian hands. It’s the port you would need to open. A referendum in an occupied land isn’t going to be looked at as valid. 
 

17 minutes ago, Fanta said:

btw: this old Ukrainian language map could partially explain why Russia might not have such a hard time with the residents or insurgents in their captured areas.

I’m not too sure how valid that map is anymore. Not after the locals have been bombed for the last two months. Keep in mind those most likely to sympathize with Russia are also the ones who have been hit the hardest. Those in the east. Good way to change peoples minds wouldn’t you say?

[Fanta]

25 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

How do you mine the waters and blockade when Ukraine is going to shoot anti ship missiles at you? 

They are doing it already and it only cost the Russian one troop transporter. The 40 year old battleship sunk itself 

That language map looks quite similar to the current and projected Russian advances. 

25 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Good way to change peoples minds wouldn’t you say?

Depends on who is telling the story doesn’t it? If the Russian take Donbass I think they won’t have much of a problem with insurgents in that area, provided you believe the Russian justifications for invading. Not hard to imagine that story being pushed throughout other captured areas. The airport at Odessa has been bombed so…. Will Ukraine give up it’s Black Sea ports for peace as well as half the country? I don’t think so.

[EdwardV]

11 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Will Ukraine give up it’s Black Sea ports for peace as well as half the country? I don’t think so.

No, not a chance. Without access to the Black Sea, Ukraine is economically dead. 
 

It’s beginning to be hard to imagine Russia would own that much of Ukraine. The Donbas attack seems to have stalled, and Ukraine is counter attacking in the north and west. They have even managed to retake a few villages in the Donbas. This war is starting to look like a stalemate. Maybe when the ground drys in June things will change? 

 

[Benroon]

On 4/30/2022 at 10:27 AM, oldschooler said:

“Learnt“ all that rubbish at “uni” did you, along with your useless sociology or “media studies”degree perhaps ?

You don’t get to “ reject” definition & application of democracy.

Voters already punished this flawed condescending ( “we know better than you thickos”)  approach by collapsing the “ red wall” with an 80 seat majority. 

and how’s that wall looking now that the promises have evaporated ?

So how do you think Bojo’s lot are going to do in the upcoming local elections ? I mean Brexit has been a huge success story so he should be flying right ??

Thursday you’ll get a clue…

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

This war is starting to look like a stalemate. Maybe when the ground drys in June things will change? 

The war is only 10 weeks old. I am not surprised the Russians are finding it hard to shift the dug in Ukrainians. Counter attacks are good if not for only the ground reclaimed then at least for the effect on morale for both sides. That mud doesn’t look like it is going anywhere unless this is the second muddy season? 

“A second muddy season arrives later with the heavy autumn rains.”

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/apr/12/mud-season-in-ukraine-leaves-russian-tanks-stuck-in-mire 

[Benroon]

On 4/30/2022 at 3:40 PM, Fester said:

What is sad is that, 6 years on, remainers can't get over a democratic referendum result, which reversed a previous decision, made via the same method, to stay in the EEC in 1975. Proof of what? That the UK has been fleeced of cash and industrial capacity through 45 out of 46 years being in the EU? 

Why don't you keep your lousy insults and inane allegations for Putin and revert to topic?

I refer you back to my IQ comment.

[Rookiescot]

Guys lets not get bogged down with Brexit otherwise the thread will get closed.