News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, Santa said:

I spent 12 years in the army  in a tank regiment. Of that 12 years I spent 5 years working at the AW/MVEE Kirkcudbright working on Chobham armour. Believe me when I say you can't tell me anything when it comes to tank armour protection. Been there, done it.

Right so you should be aware of the carousel automatic loader used in the T72 and T80. This means the ammunition is stored within the crew compartment. 

You must also be aware of how western tanks store their ammunition outside of the crew compartment. Indeed they store it in a section of the tank designed to take any blast away from the crew.

And by the way Fanta. If you are going to use different accounts to try an uptick your own posts you might want to choose names more varied than Santa and Fanta. You might also want to keep an eye on which post you reacted to using which account. 

[Rookiescot]

15 minutes ago, NorskTiger said:

The dollar is "stronger", while it is losing more and more "market share" as reserve currency. Dow Jones is record-high while living standard of the average America continues to go down. 

     Of course there ARE winners on the American contient also. Those who work for corporations in adminstrative/economic and leadership roles; big tech and defense industry contractors. 

     And as long as we have this low interest rate, the Dollar AND Wall Street indices will remain high. 

   Yes, "real inflation" is not measured in any country anymore. Energy prices, housing and taxation is going up in most of the West. 

   The Russian "communist" economy operates on a flat-tax...

The dollar is in a far better position than the Ruble.

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, NorskTiger said:

 Interesting.... All I hear in Western media is that "Putin is bipolar"; "Putin has paranoia"; "Putin has cancer"; "Putin is demented". and so on and so on. 

    So good to hear that SOME on the other side seem to realize this is not some deranged lunatic. 

      As far as "hollow threat", I think you have to listen to the actual quotes in Russian to understand the real meaning. Then again, the Anglified world wants everyone to think there is no language besides English and anything is easy to translate into it. 

Czar Putin is finished mate. Get used to it. His mental or physical state is asinine. The only question is who actually orders the coup.

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

possibly. and perhaps not.

the question is - do these civilians know about these corridors, given that they receive information only from the Ukrainian military? Is it profitable for the Ukrainian military to let civilians leave the factory?

the answers to these questions will help you understand why these peaceful people are still there.

Oh they know about them. And the prospect of being taken to Russia as a hostage is probably not what they want.

[Fanta]

12 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

And by the way Fanta. If you are going to use different accounts to try an uptick your own posts you might want to choose names more varied than Santa and Fanta. You might also want to keep an eye on which post you reacted to using which account. 

Wrong again. Report it to the mods if you believe it. 

[butterfly]

14 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Czar Putin is finished mate. Get used to it. His mental or physical state is asinine. The only question is who actually orders the coup.

not sure in what world you are living or projecting, but there will be no coup. The only thing you can hope for is when Putin dies in his bed in the next 6 months once half of Ukraine will be destroyed and Zelensky would still be on TV berating everyone who doesn't support his idea of defending Ukraine. By that time, that would be everyone in the west.

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Wrong again. Report it to the mods if you believe it. 

I was replying to Santa.

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, butterfly said:

not sure in what world you are living or projecting, but there will be no coup. The only thing you can hope for is when Putin dies in his bed in the next 6 months once half of Ukraine will be destroyed and Zelensky would still be on TV berating everyone who doesn't support his idea of defending Ukraine. By that time, that would be everyone in the west.

I'm curious. At which point will you switch allegiance? Before or after the coup?

[Fanta]

17 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I was replying to Santa.

. Here is your message. Are you OK? 

 

[Smithydog]

19 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

So your message is that the people in Russia are supporting the strategy of Moscow AS "PROVEN" by a Western poll. This obviously would indicate the support is even higher than that. 

    As far as them being branded a "foreign agent". Oh well, I have also been branded similar things, even on this forum. So is he saying the poll is tricky, as in "wrong", or is he saying he got it right despite any alleged government interference? I am confused. 

     "Democracy" as of the Western model is the banking and corporate rulership of the people via lapdogs that are "democratically elected", LOL. 

How well did you read the source? It is not a "western" poll. It is an independent polling person in Russia conducting the poll. 

The rest explained the challenges he faced and his suspicions based on his experiences in Russia conducting the poll. 

I am starting to wonder if your only intent is to be misleading and not to discuss it. As an observation, you actually sound more and more like those in the past in the old USA who were saying that they "see a red under every bed". Just reversed in your case.

Why is it that people cannot comment freely in Russia without fear of being arrested under the laws mentioned in the article supplied, or face such action as detailed in this independent Russian media.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/27/no-to-war-thousands-detained-in-russian-protests-a76636

If Russia is so great, why can't people openly dispute that?  It seems the majority in your stated country of Norway support their own actions in Ukraine, including sending military equipment to fight against the Russian Invasion. Yet you are still allowed a voice.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293868/norway-military-support-ukraine-opinion/

But I'll leave it to the Norwegian Government to sum up the position of Norway.

https://www.regjeringen.no/en/aktuelt/norway-strongly-condemns-russian-attacks/id2902211/

The only confidence I have in your responses is that you will just again misleadingly try and spin it to your own false narrative and fail once again.

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

So your message is that the people in Russia are supporting the strategy of Moscow AS "PROVEN" by a Western poll. This obviously would indicate the support is even higher than that. 

    As far as them being branded a "foreign agent". Oh well, I have also been branded similar things, even on this forum. So is he saying the poll is tricky, as in "wrong", or is he saying he got it right despite any alleged government interference? I am confused. 

     "Democracy" as of the Western model is the banking and corporate rulership of the people via lapdogs that are "democratically elected", LOL. 

You are very happy though to benefit from living comfortably in a rich western democracy whilst denouncing it in simplistic juvenile terms

The people are often betrayed but do bite back. UK Brexit. UK Election ( 80 Parliament Majority vs. Remainers).

Consider emigrating then; perhaps to the giant non- democratic  prison tyranny next door….. or some African / Asian / Latin American nation ;  no ? Right. Didn’t think so

[Fester]

3 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

The dollar is "stronger", while it is losing more and more "market share" as reserve currency. Dow Jones is record-high while living standard of the average America continues to go down. 

     Of course there ARE winners on the American contient also. Those who work for corporations in adminstrative/economic and leadership roles; big tech and defense industry contractors. 

     And as long as we have this low interest rate, the Dollar AND Wall Street indices will remain high. 

   Yes, "real inflation" is not measured in any country anymore. Energy prices, housing and taxation is going up in most of the West. 

   The Russian "communist" economy operates on a flat-tax...

All carp. Maybe next week will be better for you.

[Fester]

3 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

The dollar share of world markets is getting closer to 50%. What effect long-term oil price and Middle-East following Iran and accepting other payments is anyone's guess. 

   For sure, the US empire cannot afford to grow the deficit forever, when the number of financiers decrease. 

    Me, I still think in Gold, Bitcoin, property, skillset and some cash at hand. 

That's better.

[EdwardV]

3 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

As far as "hollow threat", I think you have to listen to the actual quotes in Russian to understand the real meaning. Then again, the Anglified world wants everyone to think there is no language besides English and anything is easy to translate into it. 

You keep saying what Putin says in Russian isn’t the same as what the western media reports. However you never explain the difference or give a better translation. Personally I don’t really care as I watch what he does, not what he says. When I say hollow threat it’s because not once since the war has started have Russian rocket forces changed their posture. They have never actually raised their alert level, or moved weapons. Rational people don’t normally make claims to do irrational things and then continue to do rations ones. It’s called crying wolf when there is no wolf. Doesn’t mean the West shouldn’t take notice, just they shouldn’t worry until things actually do change on the ground. 

[KRLMRX]

4 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Oh they know about them. And the prospect of being taken to Russia as a hostage is probably not what they want.

It's good that you asked all of them.  

but in real life, not in your fantasy, most would choose to survive, even at the risk of being taken hostage.

[Alavan]

7 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

It's good that you asked all of them.  

but in real life, not in your fantasy, most would choose to survive, even at the risk of being taken hostage.

So why did some of them have to end up in Archangelsk?

[Shishi]

On 4/18/2022 at 9:38 AM, EdwardV said:

How is NATO being aggressive? If anything they have been too passive. NATO is hardly an American mouthpiece, Biden has clearly been leading from behind since day one. Ukrainian suffering can only be attributed to one person and that’s Putin. 

NATO is an offensive organization not a defensive anymore since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Would go as far as calling them terrorists, downright criminal and corporate warmongers, Their purpose for existing expired long ago and should be dismantle.

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Shishi said:

NATO is an offensive organization not a defensive anymore since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Would go as far as calling them terrorists, downright criminal and corporate warmongers, Their purpose for existing expired long ago and should be dismantle.

You quoted me, but you didn’t answer the question. How is NATO being aggressive? Please don’t tell me about Kosovo or Libya, that’s ancient history. We are talking about Ukraine, how are they being aggressive in connection to Ukraine? 

[Fanta]

4 hours ago, Alavan said:

So why did some of them have to end up in Archangelsk?

You want to be in a war zone or a peace zone? It’s that simple. 

[Marble-eye]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

You want to be in a war zone or a peace zone? It’s that simple. 

"It's that simple" so forcing an ethnic group into another country is that simple, well I hope that never happens to you. I haven't spoke to these people that are being bombed or starved to death, but I'd bet that most of them would prefer to live in their own country in peace and have the Russians leave their country and let them to get on with their own lives. 

Sometimes Fanta I just don't know if you ignore the obvious just to be awkward or are you such a big fan of Putin, your liking of the Putin apologists posts would suggest the latter. 

Could the forced transfer of the Ukrainians to another country be classed as a war crime, some might even say it is another form of genocide, but hey, "it's that simple" 

 

[Fanta]

50 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

"It's that simple" so forcing an ethnic group into another country is that simple, well I hope that never happens to you. I haven't spoke to these people that are being bombed or starved to death, but I'd bet that most of them would prefer to live in their own country in peace and have the Russians leave their country and let them to get on with their own lives. 

Sometimes Fanta I just don't know if you ignore the obvious just to be awkward or are you such a big fan of Putin, your liking of the Putin apologists posts would suggest the latter. 

Could the forced transfer of the Ukrainians to another country be classed as a war crime, some might even say it is another form of genocide, but hey, "it's that simple" 

You should ask vlad for his thoughts on the matter. His concern was that previous Mariupol evacuees who were relocated further inside Ukraine had been moved “out of the frying pan into the fire” as he put it. If the last 2 months of my life had been spent living in fear of my life I’d be relieved to go pretty much anywhere safe. Anywhere except for your and Rookiescot’s head, I’ve been living there rent free for way too long already. Please forcibly evacuate me.

Ps: have you ever considered this is a humanitarian effort that will save the lives of noncombatants, not genocide? Or that accusations of hostage taking/human shields could also be leveled at the Azov regiment in the steelworks who are holding 1,000+ old men, woman and children? The civilians are now safe from war and receiving the basics necessities of life and isn’t that the most important thing? 

[EdwardV]

28 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Ps: have you ever considered this is a humanitarian effort that will save the lives of noncombatants, not genocide?

Problem is it’s Russia defining what is a safe area. The same people who were bombing them. If Russia was allowing them to transit to a third country (plenty of organizations like the Red Cross would love to help), or immediately leave Russia on their own I would agree. However taking their passports (allegedly) and sending them deep into Russia is looks a lot like hostage taking at best, kidnapping at worse.
 

A lot of bad things can come from this policy. 

[Fanta]

47 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Problem is it’s Russia defining what is a safe area. The same people who were bombing them. If Russia was allowing them to transit to a third country (plenty of organizations like the Red Cross would love to help), or immediately leave Russia on their own I would agree. However taking their passports (allegedly) and sending them deep into Russia is looks a lot like hostage taking at best, kidnapping at worse.
 

A lot of bad things can come from this policy. 

I am not excusing or condemning this, just trying to form my own opinion. Moving them deep inside Russia can be seen at suppressing the plight of innocents in war from ordinary Russians. Passports, ID cards - I don’t know. Taking them without issuing a replacement ID means tens of thousands undocumented people in country. Evacuate by a 3rd party? Neither side, understandably, trusts the any side and the Russians have clearly decided to take these matters into their own hands. The Russians will claim it is a humanitarian gesture while the MSM will claim it is hostage taking. There are pro Russia allegations that Azov soldiers attacked a known humanitarian convoy in Mariupol. If the Russians believe that how can they be expected to trust the Ukrainians to evacuate non combatants? I wouldn’t. Question:  Why burden yourself with 40,000+ of “the enemy” if you can just abandon them on their own soil? That’s the bit I don’t understand if we are expected to believe the MSM’s portrayal of this as a heinous act.

[PBS]

12 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Question:  Why burden yourself with 40,000+ of “the enemy” if you can just abandon them on their own soil? That’s the bit I don’t understand if we are expected to believe the MSM’s portrayal of this as a heinous act.

Why would Russia faciltate the return of 'enemy civilians' for intelligence gathering, morale booster and so on.

Putin repeatedly lied leading up to the invasion, so his word is worth nothing. Remember the Russians have continually failed to keep their promisses for evacuation corridors.  Would not the Russians keep enemy civilians as high value assets for bargining a future peace / ceasefire agreement. One thing you can be sure of, as a peace / ceasefire agreement nears Russian agression will increase in tempo to increase pressure on Ukraine government.

[EdwardV]

31 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Question:  Why burden yourself with 40,000+ of “the enemy” if you can just abandon them on their own soil? That’s the bit I don’t understand if we are expected to believe the MSM’s portrayal of this as a heinous act.

Good question, no doubt getting them out of the conflict zone is a plus regardless. It’s just the optics look bad and Russia has a long history of forced relocation. Since it considers Ukraine not a country but part of Russia … you can see the rabbit hole this runs down.