News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

According to the Russian lies, the brave Russian troops are still on 'special operations'. This is the lies that the Russian media are drip feeding their gullable citizens, it would appear that the majority of Russians are quite happy to be fed this garbage. But now it would appear that they are now upping the ante and saying that they are now no longer fighting Ukraine but they are fighting NATO and according to this idiot on the daily lies program we are going to be next to feel the might of the great Russian military murdering machine. Isn't it about time Russian arrogance was shut down for good or 'come on if you think you're hard enough'. 

The worrying thing is this guy probably believes the nonsense he is talking.

[Fanta]

37 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

According to the Russian lies, the brave Russian troops are still on 'special operations'. This is the lies that the Russian media are drip feeding their gullable citizens, it would appear that the majority of Russians are quite happy to be fed this garbage. But now it would appear that they are now upping the ante and saying that they are now no longer fighting Ukraine but they are fighting NATO and according to this idiot on the daily lies program we are going to be next to feel the might of the great Russian military murdering machine. Isn't it about time Russian arrogance was shut down for good or 'come on if you think you're hard enough'. 

This is the second time you have posted content from Russia Media Monitor. Russian Media Monitor is based in California in the good old US of A and was created in an effort to combat Russian propaganda. And some still believe that one side uses propaganda while the other side speaks the truth. 

btw: I wonder what they cut out at the 20 second mark in the video? Maybe something like “If NATO commits troops” 
https://www.apollo.io/companies/Russian-Media-Monitor/5b85c7f7f874f733e4913405?chart=count

ps: if you believe one guy on a talk show is representative of the general population then Carlson Tucker with his highest-rated cable news show in the U.S must terrify you.  
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/feb/25/tucker-carlson-fox-news-russia-putin

[EdwardV]

57 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I read an opinion piece from an “analyst” that wants to lend 3 squadrons of Warthogs A10s to Ukraine. That would put the cat amongst the pigeons. 

I wouldn't put too much credence to that rumor. Not that I wouldn’t like it to be true. It comes from the fact the US Air Force will be sending about 70 A-10s to the California desert for long term storage (read retirement). The US is in the process of upgrading the A-10, but for a slightly smaller fleet. 

[Fanta]

But it would be so easy! lol 

“Pilot retraining is minimal. All that is needed is painting Ukrainian insignia and delivering the aircraft. This could be done in days.”

“https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/commentary/2022/03/03/transfer-three-a-10-aircraft-squadrons-to-ukraine-now/

[Fanta]

Putin has ordered his forces to stop attacking the steelworks and blockade it. 
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-cancels-russian-plans-storm-mariupol-steel-plant-opts-blockade-instead-2022-04-21/

[EdwardV]

36 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Putin has ordered his forces to stop attacking the steelworks and blockade it. 

Makes sense militarily. He has probably 10-12 battalions tied up there. Leaving 3-4 to blockade frees up at least 6-7 to move north. Of course they are probably so chewed up they will take weeks to be refitted. 

[Rookiescot]

20 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Makes sense militarily. He has probably 10-12 battalions tied up there. Leaving 3-4 to blockade frees up at least 6-7 to move north. Of course they are probably so chewed up they will take weeks to be refitted. 

No military commander would allow that many "enemy" troops to remain behind his lines. This has been done because from a Russian perspective they simply cannot take it. I also suspect there is a high level of fatigue among the Russian troops in that they were taking huge casualties for no gain. A place like that is a snipers heaven.

So yes Czar Putin will order the place to be sealed but the reality will be far different. It will be virtually impossible to keep those guys hemmed in. They will go out and cause mayhem.

[EdwardV]

The US just gave some of the details of what makes up the upcoming $800M aid package:

According to DOD, the capabilities in this package include: -72 155mm Howitzers and 144,000 artillery rounds; -72 Tactical Vehicles to tow 155mm Howitzers; -Over 121 Phoenix Ghost Tactical Unmanned Aerial Systems; and -Field equipment and spare parts 

Damn that’s a lot of artillery. Didn’t the Brits just announce sending anti aircraft vehicles?

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

No military commander would allow that many "enemy" troops to remain behind his lines. This has been done because from a Russian perspective they simply cannot take it. I also suspect there is a high level of fatigue among the Russian troops in that they were taking huge casualties for no gain. A place like that is a snipers heaven.

So yes Czar Putin will order the place to be sealed but the reality will be far different. It will be virtually impossible to keep those guys hemmed in. They will go out and cause mayhem.

You are in denial.

[KRLMRX]

11 hours ago, Marble-eye said:

According to the Russian lies, the brave Russian troops are still on 'special operations'. This is the lies that the Russian media are drip feeding their gullable citizens, it would appear that the majority of Russians are quite happy to be fed this garbage. But now it would appear that they are now upping the ante and saying that they are now no longer fighting Ukraine but they are fighting NATO and according to this idiot on the daily lies program we are going to be next to feel the might of the great Russian military murdering machine. Isn't it about time Russian arrogance was shut down for good or 'come on if you think you're hard enough'. 

what made you so angry?  

the war is actually going on with the participation of NATO - almost all countries supply weapons, provide information support, there is only no direct participation of troops.  

Wait, it looks like militant characters like you in power on all sides will ensure the participation of NATO troops too.

[KRLMRX]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

No military commander would allow that many "enemy" troops to remain behind his lines. This has been done because from a Russian perspective they simply cannot take it. I also suspect there is a high level of fatigue among the Russian troops in that they were taking huge casualties for no gain. A place like that is a snipers heaven.

So yes Czar Putin will order the place to be sealed but the reality will be far different. It will be virtually impossible to keep those guys hemmed in. They will go out and cause mayhem.

it will be difficult for them to get out, being surrounded and under constant fire from artillery and aircraft - Putin has not forbidden to use this.

[Rookiescot]

25 minutes ago, Fanta said:

You are in denial.

Go fetch

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

it will be difficult for them to get out, being surrounded and under constant fire from artillery and aircraft - Putin has not forbidden to use this.

They will do it. They will have to.

[Fanta]

4 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Go fetch

Polly want a cracker? 

[Fanta]

4 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

They will do it. They will have to.

Because surrendering is for cowards? Or maybe Neo Nazis using civilians as human shields just don’t do surrender…. It must be tough sitting in your armchair 1000’s of miles away, or in your bunker mere hundreds of miles away, rejecting demands for the surrender of troops and civilians trapped in a hopeless situation before relaxing with a nice warm cup of cocoa. All in a days work when you are busy pumping the sympathy machine for all it is worth. 

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Because surrendering is for cowards?

Battles of Thermopylae, Leningrad, Alamo, Bastogne, etc. Depending on how the war ends, Mariupol might be added to that list.  

[EdwardV]

The Dutch are sending huge German made self propelled armored howitzers to Ukraine: 

On April 20, a report from Bloomberg News indicates the Netherlands is transferring some of its German-built Panzerhaubitze 2000 long-range armored howitzers to Ukraine. Also known as the Pzh 2000, these hulking 61.5-ton tracked vehicles are arguably the heaviest land-warfare systems a Western ally has transferred to Ukraine so far ... Rapid fire attacks can be more lethal, as most casualties caused by artillery occur in the first few minutes of a bombardment, when personnel are surprised and exposed and have yet to make it into cover. That means firing, 20 shells in 1-2 minutes is much more effective than 20 shells in 10 minutes. Furthermore, rapid high-volume fires enhance survival, allowing artillery to quickly complete their fire missions and reposition to avoid counter-battery attacks from opposing artillery. Here, the Pzh2000’s autoloader and barrel synergize: it can rapid fire 3 shells in just nine seconds, tolerate around 20 rounds in 2 minutes, or maintain 8 rounds per minute long-term. Furthermore, it’s fire control system can execute Multiple Release Simultaneous Impact (MRSI) strikes in which it discharges up to five or six rounds in succession with variable strength charges, which can all land at the same target at roughly the same time—ensuring a vicious initial strike before troops can make it into cover.

The Dutch Are Sending Huge German Armored Howitzers To Ukraine (forbes.com)

Almost doesn't seem fair. In other armored new, Slovenia is sending tanks to Ukraine:

According to dpa's sources, Slovenia will send Soviet-made T-72 tanks to Ukraine, while Germany will give Slovenia German-made tanks and APCs from the country's own stock. That Germany has concluded an agreement on sending heavy weapons to Ukraine was confirmed on Thursday by German Defence Minister Christine Lambrecht, according to the French news agency AFP. The sources say that, in line with the agreement, Germany will give Slovenia Marder and Fuchs APCs, while Slovenia is said to have asked for more modern weapons, including Leopard 2 tanks and Puma and Boxer APCs. According to the information available on the website of the Slovenian Armed Forces, Slovenia does not have T-72 tanks, but Yugoslav-made M-84 tanks, an updated and upgraded version of T-72.

Slovenia Sending Tanks to Ukraine in Weapons Swap with Germany (total-slovenia-news.com)

At first I thought this was an old story, but that prior donation was from Slovakia. Seems the whole central Europe is just filled with Russian (or copied) equipment. I liked the part about Slovenia wanting a better trade out of the Germans. Damn Germans still don't want to hand over tanks directly.  

 

 

 

 

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Because surrendering is for cowards? Or maybe Neo Nazis using civilians as human shields just don’t do surrender…. It must be tough sitting in your armchair 1000’s of miles away, or in your bunker mere hundreds of miles away, rejecting demands for the surrender of troops and civilians trapped in a hopeless situation before relaxing with a nice warm cup of cocoa. All in a days work when you are busy pumping the sympathy machine for all it is worth. 

Go fetch

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

Battles of Thermopylae, Leningrad, Alamo, Bastogne, etc. Depending on how the war ends, Mariupol might be added to that list.  

A victory for morale purposes? Maybe. I just want the maximum possible get alive  from what looks like a hopeless situation. 

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

The Dutch are sending huge German made self propelled armored howitzers to Ukraine: 

On April 20, a report from Bloomberg News indicates the Netherlands is transferring some of its German-built Panzerhaubitze 2000 long-range armored howitzers to Ukraine. Also known as the Pzh 2000, these hulking 61.5-ton tracked vehicles are arguably the heaviest land-warfare systems a Western ally has transferred to Ukraine so far ... Rapid fire attacks can be more lethal, as most casualties caused by artillery occur in the first few minutes of a bombardment, when personnel are surprised and exposed and have yet to make it into cover. That means firing, 20 shells in 1-2 minutes is much more effective than 20 shells in 10 minutes. Furthermore, rapid high-volume fires enhance survival, allowing artillery to quickly complete their fire missions and reposition to avoid counter-battery attacks from opposing artillery. Here, the Pzh2000’s autoloader and barrel synergize: it can rapid fire 3 shells in just nine seconds, tolerate around 20 rounds in 2 minutes, or maintain 8 rounds per minute long-term. Furthermore, it’s fire control system can execute Multiple Release Simultaneous Impact (MRSI) strikes in which it discharges up to five or six rounds in succession with variable strength charges, which can all land at the same target at roughly the same time—ensuring a vicious initial strike before troops can make it into cover.

The Dutch Are Sending Huge German Armored Howitzers To Ukraine (forbes.com)

Almost doesn't seem fair. In other armored new, Slovenia is sending tanks to Ukraine:

According to dpa's sources, Slovenia will send Soviet-made T-72 tanks to Ukraine, while Germany will give Slovenia German-made tanks and APCs from the country's own stock. That Germany has concluded an agreement on sending heavy weapons to Ukraine was confirmed on Thursday by German Defence Minister Christine Lambrecht, according to the French news agency AFP. The sources say that, in line with the agreement, Germany will give Slovenia Marder and Fuchs APCs, while Slovenia is said to have asked for more modern weapons, including Leopard 2 tanks and Puma and Boxer APCs. According to the information available on the website of the Slovenian Armed Forces, Slovenia does not have T-72 tanks, but Yugoslav-made M-84 tanks, an updated and upgraded version of T-72.

Slovenia Sending Tanks to Ukraine in Weapons Swap with Germany (total-slovenia-news.com)

At first I thought this was an old story, but that prior donation was from Slovakia. Seems the whole central Europe is just filled with Russian (or copied) equipment. I liked the part about Slovenia wanting a better trade out of the Germans. Damn Germans still don't want to hand over tanks directly.  

That’s good. The downside is that the r railways used to transport this equipment will likely come under Russian attack. Unless there is another way to move this equipment in? 

[EdwardV]

46 minutes ago, Fanta said:

A victory for morale purposes? Maybe. I just want the maximum possible get alive  from what looks like a hopeless situation.

There are worse things in war. We all want that. Russia could allow them to leave under observation of a third party county or the UN. It least the civilians 
 

 

43 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Unless there is another way to move this equipment in? 

They can move them by truck, same as a tank. 

[Marble-eye]

8 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

what made you so angry?  

the war is actually going on with the participation of NATO - almost all countries supply weapons, provide information support, there is only no direct participation of troops.  

Wait, it looks like militant characters like you in power on all sides will ensure the participation of NATO troops too.

'What made me so angry' Where do we start, how about here. The killing of women, children and of course all other innocent people who didn't ask for the Russian demolition Squad to invade their country, the raping and killing of women and babies, the wanton destruction of infrastructure, oh and let's not forget the torture and multiple war crimes, I sure that there is many other terrible deviant anomalies I may have excluded. 

So tell me Karl what is your proudest moment of the Russian invasion, now take your time. 

[Fanta]

A British volunteer fighter who surrendered at Mariupol.

 

[Fanta]

15 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

There are worse things in war. We all want that. Russia could allow them to leave under observation of a third party county or the UN. It least the civilians 

This is all propaganda. The Russians cannot allow the soldiers or civilians to leave and return to Ukrainian held territory. It would be presented as a tacit admission by Putin that the Russian forces cannot be trusted to do the right thing, that the defiant Ukrainians refused to give up and broke the Russians willpower. The soldiers will have to  surrender as POWs and the civilians will be “helped to safety” unless all can rescued. 

[EdwardV]

20 minutes ago, Fanta said:

A British volunteer fighter who surrendered at Mariupol.

How nice, hope the trade of prisoners goes off ok. Thanks for the update. 
 

I like how you correctly wrote volunteer where the video calls him a mercenary. Ironically that applies more to the troops being brought in from Syria. You see his hands are always next to each other? Not that there is anything wrong with that.