News Forum - Large Russian war ship struck, abandoned to flames in Black Sea

[Fanta]

8 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Battlefield stuff Can’t be kept secret  due to free accountable intrusive uncontrolled western press everywhere outside tyrannies with access to commercial satellites & ground sources. Only spy national security black operations stuff kept secret. 

So how many Ukrainian and Russian tanks or soldiers lost in the war to date? Says who? And do you believe those figures are even close to accurate?  The Russian cruiser was sunk and we can all agree it caught fire. Most spare satellite cameras would be focused on Ukraine at the moment and every nearby Russian sailor has his iPutin out recording and taking unhappy snaps yet not one photo of the cruiser on fire. An analogy is an addicted gambler - reluctant to admit their losses, keen to talk about their wins and the future will always be better. 

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

So how many Ukrainian and Russian tanks or soldiers lost in the war to date? Says who? And do you believe those figures are even close to accurate?  The Russian cruiser was sunk and we can all agree it caught fire. Most spare satellite cameras would be focused on Ukraine at the moment and every nearby Russian sailor has his iPutin out recording and taking unhappy snaps yet not one photo of the cruiser on fire. An analogy is an addicted gambler - reluctant to admit their losses, keen to talk about their wins and the future will always be better. 

Wikipedia Table of Ukraine loss estimates in various categories from various sources. Take your pick or do a moving average or do further research. Precise numbers unimportant.

Clearly western intelligence sources have stated & evidenced that cruiser struck & sunk by two Ukrainian anti- ship cruise missiles ( R360 Neptune ).

Russian take on anything long since discredited as lies. Ignore. 

[oldschooler]

10 hours ago, Alavan said:

No so certain they were reported, but with nowadays technology, satelites, drones, listening services passing the old hot air baloon and post doves technologies, it is more difficult to hide.
I an sure US and NATO alies HQ know a lot more than what we are yagyaging about.

Would really hope so but of course they do including top secret operations  & intelligence kept from media so kept from us ! Was wrong to use word “ immediately” as much data can only emerge after the chaos of war ended.

[Politenessman]

12 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

It is not easy to change the supplier of energy resources.  it is logistics, infrastructure.  If coal is easier, then gas is a matter of many years and a lot of money.  

Nuclear power plants are also not switched on instantly by a switch after several years of conservation.  

That is why we will not see in the coming months a break in contracts for the supply of Russian energy resources to Europe.

In the case of coal and gas it is just shipping. Europe has 6 months to update infrastructure, it can be done if a sense of urgency is applied.

The reactor don't need to start with a flick of the switch, they have 6 months, they have not blown up the reactors.

[Fanta]

Interesting info on Germany’s electrical energy sources and the status of their nuclear plants. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Germany

[palooka]

19 hours ago, Benroon said:

Interesting read regarding debunking truths and untruths ...

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-sunday-telegraph/20220417/282157884792359

Large Russian war ship struck, abandoned to flames in Black Sea

What does this link have to do with the subject?

[Alavan]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:07 PM, Fester said:

Ah Vetusky, thanks. Good that one can look back through the data.

So. on 13th April the very worst indicated weather was NW F5, gusting F6 with sea/swell max 2.5m.

The above conditions are of negligible concern to a cruiser of this size, even if moderately damaged.

The weather was even better the day after, when I assume the towing operation was attempted.

Smit could tow but the damage was evidently not controlled enough to stop the ship from sinking.

Sounds like critical loss of stability followed by capsize. 

On the first pics no waves whatsoever. 

[Rookiescot]

Film and photos appear to show Russian cruiser Moskva shortly before it sank | Ukraine | The Guardian

It had to emerge some time didn't it.

I dont see much in the way of storm seas there either.

[Fester]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Film and photos appear to show Russian cruiser Moskva shortly before it sank | Ukraine | The Guardian

It had to emerge some time didn't it.

I dont see much in the way of storm seas there either.

Nope. Just slight seas. More Russian fudge.

[Poolie]

On 4/17/2022 at 2:07 AM, Fester said:

So. on 13th April the very worst indicated weather was NW F5, gusting F6 with sea/swell max 2.5m.

As said previously.

[vlad]

On 4/17/2022 at 4:18 PM, KRLMRX said:

Bismarck is said to have said this:

Never fight the Russians. For your every trick, they respond with unpredictable stupidity.

Yes and the Bismark is also sitting on the seabed same as the Moskva.

[LuckyStrike]

Good news! Russia has a new submarine!

[EdwardV]

Just now, LuckyStrike said:

Good news! Russia has a new submarine!

I’ve heard it has problems surfacing, something about too many holes. 

[LuckyStrike]

15 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

I’ve heard it has problems surfacing, something about too many holes. 

I was in the surface Navy, but my submariner friends said you need to maintain a submerging to surfacing ratio of.... 1

this applies to all naval vessels... haha

[KRLMRX]

23 hours ago, Politenessman said:

In the case of coal and gas it is just shipping. Europe has 6 months to update infrastructure, it can be done if a sense of urgency is applied.

The reactor don't need to start with a flick of the switch, they have 6 months, they have not blown up the reactors.

to supply alternative gas, new ones are needed: pipelines, gas liquefaction plants, ships for transporting liquefied gas. I doubt it can be done in 6 months.

For nuclear power plants, at least fuel assemblies are needed, which are not sold on the free market, they need to be contracted and produced in advance.

[Alavan]

6 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

to supply alternative gas, new ones are needed: pipelines, gas liquefaction plants, ships for transporting liquefied gas. I doubt it can be done in 6 months.

For nuclear power plants, at least fuel assemblies are needed, which are not sold on the free market, they need to be contracted and produced in advance.

Western Europe has several pipelines, there is a whole European net of them. LNG-carriers can be chartered. If Russian LNG can't be transshipped from ice strengthened LNG carriers to conventional ones, the last ones also come free.
I know of at least one LNG reliquifaction ship. It was on charter in South America but that CP has ended. I don't know if it found a new one already.
It would be difficult to succeed 100%, but it all could help.

 

(But expensive)

[Politenessman]

7 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

to supply alternative gas, new ones are needed: pipelines, gas liquefaction plants, ships for transporting liquefied gas. I doubt it can be done in 6 months.

For nuclear power plants, at least fuel assemblies are needed, which are not sold on the free market, they need to be contracted and produced in advance.

They already have the fuel assemblies. from the same reactors they'd be using.

[Benroon]

On 4/18/2022 at 12:28 PM, palooka said:

Large Russian war ship struck, abandoned to flames in Black Sea

What does this link have to do with the subject?

About as much as the post directly above yours and several above that I guess. That's how threads work, they tend to expand correct ?