News Forum - Large Russian war ship struck, abandoned to flames in Black Sea

[Thaidup]

The Ghost of Kiev sunk the ship you fools.

 

I can have a joke at how people believe the media, Not joking about the war, it is bad. But the emotional attitude and loss of having a balanced thought process I am wittnessning is joke too. Too bad we didnt have twitter when the Romans took Europe,or Attila the Hun took half of Europe.LOL

[Marble-eye]

5 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

you are wrong. propaganda is the active promotion of a certain idea, thought. It is quite possible to propagate good things. For example, the promotion of healthy lifestyles has led to a significant reduction in tobacco use worldwide.

Ergo, it is a lie. 

[Thaidup]

1 hour ago, Marble-eye said:

For example, the promotion of healthy lifestyles has led to a significant reduction in tobacco use worldwide.

That was a really bad example of "positive propaganda"  The old TV adds for smoking had a doctor saying its fine,

https://www.history.com/news/cigarette-ads-doctors-smoking-endorsement

[EdwardV]

“The Russian cruiser sent out a distress call at night, Arvydas Anusauskas said on Facebook.

"At 1.14 a.m., the cruiser lay on its side, and after half an hour, all the electricity went out. From 2 a.m., the Turkish ship evacuated 54 sailors from the cruiser, and at about 3 a.m., Turkey and Romania reported that the ship had completely sunk. The related loss of Russian personnel is still unknown, although there were 485 crew on board (66 of them officers)," Anusauskas said.”

https://www.dailysabah.com/politics/diplomacy/turkish-ship-rescued-54-sailors-on-russian-cruiser-moskva-lithuania/amp

Has Russia said anything true about the sinking? Par for the course I guess. What time did Ukraine first say they hit the ship? Was it around 23:00 - 24:00?

[Fanta]

Can the Russians replace it? There are only 2 more in service and apparently they can’t travel to that area via Turkey. Do they need to? They can still blockade the ports. 
It seems like the real damage to the Russians is morale and reputation than the military/tactical damage caused by the sinking of a flagship. Some experts say it won’t have much of a military impact while others say it will allow Ukrainian planes to be more active. 
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1296573/russia-ukraine-military-comparison/ 

click the more data twice to see data about the respective air forces & navies

 

 

[EdwardV]

44 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Can the Russians replace it? There are only 2 more in service and apparently they can’t travel to that area via Turkey. Do they need to? They can still blockade the ports. 

They are both in the Eastern Mediterranean keeping watch on the US carrier battle group. The French Carrier is floating around the neighborhood too. However you are correct, the Turks have shut the Dardanelles to any additional Russian naval ships entering the Black Sea. Unless the west wants to send ships into the Black Sea, the 5 remaining Russian frigates should be up to any task. The Turks aren’t going to cause any problems, they need Russian gas too much. 
 

Now if the Ukrainian’s could pick off one or two of them, that’s a whole new ball game. 

[Politenessman]

Am I the only one who is wondering if, when Putin decided to call his invasion a "Special Military Operation", was he using the other definition of "Special"?

[TWS60]

The reaction to this event by table-pounding Right Wing whackos on Russia's Fox 'news', contrary to Moscow's BS story, is the tell here.  As if another indication was necessary.  Occam's Razor.

[Fester]

9 hours ago, Thaidup said:

Was it near "snake island" ?

Looks to be. From the reports I can find the ship was about equidistant from Snake I. and the central west cost of Crimea. Maybe <100km.

[Fester]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Can the Russians replace it? There are only 2 more in service and apparently they can’t travel to that area via Turkey. Do they need to? They can still blockade the ports. 
It seems like the real damage to the Russians is morale and reputation than the military/tactical damage caused by the sinking of a flagship. Some experts say it won’t have much of a military impact while others say it will allow Ukrainian planes to be more active. 
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1296573/russia-ukraine-military-comparison/ 

click the more data twice to see data about the respective air forces & navies

It will allow the Ukrainian military to be more active, generally. 

[Alavan]

4 hours ago, EdwardV said:

“The Russian cruiser sent out a distress call at night, Arvydas Anusauskas said on Facebook.

"At 1.14 a.m., the cruiser lay on its side, and after half an hour, all the electricity went out. From 2 a.m., the Turkish ship evacuated 54 sailors from the cruiser, and at about 3 a.m., Turkey and Romania reported that the ship had completely sunk. The related loss of Russian personnel is still unknown, although there were 485 crew on board (66 of them officers)," Anusauskas said.”

https://www.dailysabah.com/politics/diplomacy/turkish-ship-rescued-54-sailors-on-russian-cruiser-moskva-lithuania/amp

Has Russia said anything true about the sinking? Par for the course I guess. What time did Ukraine first say they hit the ship? Was it around 23:00 - 24:00?

Ship lay on her side.

So my first guess, negative GM (stability) caused by free surface effect may be correct.

[vlad]

The old Putin lies are getting better or more stupid. I think I saw this report on the BBC morning news today. The ship's company was filmed on parade in Moscow this morning. The clip was broadcast by the Russian military showing most of the crew of the Moskva. Not bad considering it was only 2 days ago it was sunk surprise surprise most of the crew were on show but no navel caps or insignia could be seen. As reported above by Edward only 54 Sailors were picked up and the Captain died onboard but it's not been officially proven. I'm leaning more toward this news as if 2 missiles did strike home many would be killed.

[Fanta]

20 minutes ago, vlad said:

The old Putin lies are getting better or more stupid. I think I saw this report on the BBC morning news today. The ship's company was filmed on parade in Moscow this morning. The clip was broadcast by the Russian military showing most of the crew of the Moskva. Not bad considering it was only 2 days ago it was sunk surprise surprise most of the crew were on show but no navel caps or insignia could be seen. As reported above by Edward only 54 Sailors were picked up and the Captain died onboard but it's not been officially proven. I'm leaning more toward this news as if 2 missiles did strike home many would be killed.

This BBC clip?

 

“The video shows Adm Yevmenov and two other officers standing on a parade ground in front of about 100 sailors. It is not clear when the meeting took place.”

 

Those 100 Russian sailors must be the fastest swimmers. Expect another video with the full compliment of sailors when the other 400+ stragglers get in. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61129151

[vlad]

Strange the Moskva's Captain was not in the Clip.

[Fester]

23 minutes ago, vlad said:

Strange the Moskva's Captain was not in the Clip.

It's hard to be sure who really was in the clip.

[ThailandBob]

3 hours ago, Fanta said:

Those 100 Russian sailors must be the fastest swimmers. Expect another video with the full compliment of sailors when the other 400+ stragglers get in. 

Given that they managed to get their dress uniforms ashore, these guys should be swimming for an olympic team.

Edited April 17, 2022 by ThailandBob

[KRLMRX]

On 4/16/2022 at 4:28 PM, EdwardV said:

It’s strange the Russians are bombing Kyiv and still not attacking the decision making centers. Go figure. 
 

in other news Russia is threatening America with “unpredictable consequences" if they don’t stop sending weapons to Ukraine. Of course the official threat was done the day before the US announced $800M more in weapons including helicopters and heavy artillery. So much for threats. What they heck does unpredictable consequences mean?

Bismarck is said to have said this:

Never fight the Russians. For your every trick, they respond with unpredictable stupidity.

[KRLMRX]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:59 PM, Politenessman said:

It would be bad for Europe, but not devastating - they are running into summer and there are plenty of countries that would be happy to supply Gas and Coal, also Germany has reactors that they can spin back up, don't be surprised if they are in the early stages of doing that.

It is not easy to change the supplier of energy resources.  it is logistics, infrastructure.  If coal is easier, then gas is a matter of many years and a lot of money.  

Nuclear power plants are also not switched on instantly by a switch after several years of conservation.  

That is why we will not see in the coming months a break in contracts for the supply of Russian energy resources to Europe.

[KRLMRX]

17 hours ago, EdwardV said:

And yet Russia isn’t attacking decision making centers in Kyiv, they are attacking other locations. For example they hit the abandoned weapons factory reported to be the location where they built the Neptune missiles. For a country that refuses to admit it’s ship was actually hit by Ukrainian missiles, they do a good job making one think it was.  Kinda like moving the rest of its fleet further away from Ukraine the very next day. 
 

The loss of the ship could end up being huge. The Black Sea fleet only had the one major combatant, the other five warships are just frigates. Good ones to be sure, but being much smaller they have limited weapon systems. Don’t be surprised if the west starts moving weapons into Ukraine through Romanian ports. Would be very convenient. 

Of course, the loss of the flagship missile cruiser is a very serious blow to the entire Black Sea Fleet.

taking into account the fact that ships in Russia, are almost never built after the collapse of the USSR, this is a local disaster for the Black Sea Fleet.

The fact that they do not recognize the attack as a Ukrainian missile is normal in wartime, although it is stupid, taking into account modern information realities.

[oldschooler]

7 hours ago, Fester said:

It's hard to be sure who really was in the clip.

Surprised ANY news from Russia is being looked at let alone commented. 
All can be assumed Lies so IGNORE IT ALL. Consider ONLY western -corroborated news from western or ukraine military / institute/ govt. sources. 

[oldschooler]

5 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

Of course, the loss of the flagship missile cruiser is a very serious blow to the entire Black Sea Fleet.

taking into account the fact that ships in Russia, are almost never built after the collapse of the USSR, this is a local disaster for the Black Sea Fleet.

The fact that they do not recognize the attack as a Ukrainian missile is normal in wartime, although it is stupid, taking into account modern information realities.

Normal only for lying deceiving tyrannies. Western losses have always been immediately reported accurately as such since age of televised warfare starting with Vietnam 1965. 

[KRLMRX]

8 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Normal only for lying deceiving tyrannies. Western losses have always been immediately reported accurately as such since age of televised warfare starting with Vietnam 1965. 

I am not a military expert.  but I think that the total notification of your losses plays into the hands of the enemy and thereby increases your losses.  Stupid behavior during the war.

[Benroon]

Interesting read regarding debunking truths and untruths ...

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-sunday-telegraph/20220417/282157884792359

[oldschooler]

13 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

I am not a military expert.  but I think that the total notification of your losses plays into the hands of the enemy and thereby increases your losses.  Stupid behavior during the war.

Battlefield stuff Can’t be kept secret  due to free accountable intrusive uncontrolled western press everywhere outside tyrannies with access to commercial satellites & ground sources. Only spy national security black operations stuff kept secret. 

Sure when WW2 was going badly for UK 1940-42 there were few honest Battle reports ! And zero reports at the time about the highly successful British counter insurgency wars in Asia / Africa 1947-70. Those days long gone in West. 

[Alavan]

53 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Normal only for lying deceiving tyrannies. Western losses have always been immediately reported accurately as such since age of televised warfare starting with Vietnam 1965. 

No so certain they were reported, but with nowadays technology, satelites, drones, listening services passing the old hot air baloon and post doves technologies, it is more difficult to hide.
I an sure US and NATO alies HQ know a lot more than what we are yagyaging about.