News Forum - Large Russian war ship struck, abandoned to flames in Black Sea

[Benroon]

On 4/14/2022 at 7:42 PM, Freeduhdumb said:

Russia is losing the war!! ✌

With the exception of the first sentence, alleging a missile attack, The entire article is about a fire on board ship... I'm inclined, based upon the article's lack of any evidence of a missile attack anywhere found in the article and... that it appears there were no casualties, and the boat is still operational, that there was in deed just a fire. 

Gonna struggle as a submarine though right ?

[Benroon]

23 hours ago, EdwardV said:

 

On a related side note, Norway is considering donating their highly advanced stealth Naval Strike Missile: 

“Norway has our NSM anti-ship missile – a modern and powerful weapon that could change the course of the war of Russia against Ukraine. I believe that NSM should be delivered to Ukraine. The same applies to Norway’s leading NASAMS anti-aircraft missile systems, which should be delivered to Ukraine to strengthen its air defenses,” he said.

Norwegian Parliament is proposing to transfer the NASAMS air defense and NSM strike missiles to Ukraine - Militarnyi

If the Russian's can't even shoot down a Neptune, there is no way they can with these bad boys. It's the same missile the US Navy has begun to use in replacing it's Harpoons. Nasty little guy, you don't even know it's there until it's about to hit the ship.   

OMG - that’s not going to go down well with NorskTiger, Putins right hand man

Big up to the good Norwegians

[Benroon]

50 minutes ago, Vigo said:

On a  more sombre note; the boat took many tonnes of heavy bunker oil, and significant quantities of toxic pollutants with it. Russia does not have a history of cleaning up its  environmental  messes, so that pollution is going to be destroying the sea for some time.

And as much as I oppose the Russian invasion, I still feel for the young crew who were burnt alive or trapped below deck as the fires and then forced flooding ensued. The Russians don't put much effort into the recovery of lost family members, so I expect there will be many Russian families wondering what happened to their kid.

Oh well, let’s hope they weren’t raped in their final hours prior to death eh? However Russia say all crew accounted for so spare no thoughts for the invaders as they are not worthy of your concern. 

As for pollution I’ve heard nothing, however whilst a potentially serious issue, it would be a price worth paying to continue down the path of eliminating bullies. 

[Alavan]

I can't understand why Russian TV news readers want revenge for the sinking of the ship if it was not a rocket but accidental fire on board.

[EdwardV]

7 minutes ago, Alavan said:

I can't understand why Russian TV news readers want revenge for the sinking of the ship if it was not a rocket but accidental fire on board.

It's Russian logic. Similar to Russia threatening to bomb Ukraine if it's forces don't stop doing raids inside of Russia. Besides the obvious fact Russia is already bombing Ukraine. The idea it's ok if Russia destroys Ukraine, but heaven forbid if the Ukrainians return the favor. That's clearly out of bounds.  

Same with Russia threatening Finland and Sweden over them joining NATO. The threat being Russia would move nuclear weapons into the Baltic region. Never mind the fact Russia already has nuclear weapons in the Baltic region. 

[vlad]

Oh well, the Moskva is Toast and has sunk, the usual lie's from the kremlin it suffered a fire and all crew was taken off. A Ukrainian spokesman has reported the Captain was killed but it's not been confirmed. As a shocker of this news Russian forces have said they will launch attacks on Kyiv LOL the flagship of the black sea now resting on the Seabed.

 

 

[KRLMRX]

6 minutes ago, vlad said:

Oh well, the Moskva is Toast and has sunk, the usual lie's from the kremlin it suffered a fire and all crew was taken off. A Ukrainian spokesman has reported the Captain was killed but it's not been confirmed. As a shocker of this news Russian forces have said they will launch attacks on Kyiv LOL the flagship of the black sea now resting on the Seabed.

The Russian Defense Ministry announced the day before yesterday that it would strike at decision-making centers, including in Kyiv.

the reason was the shelling of border villages in Russia, in which there is no military infrastructure.

this was before the attack on the ship.

[EdwardV]

20 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

The Russian Defense Ministry announced the day before yesterday that it would strike at decision-making centers, including in Kyiv.

the reason was the shelling of border villages in Russia, in which there is no military infrastructure.

The implication being Russia had not struck Kyiv before? A threat to do something Russia already fully intends to do anyway is hollow. 

You do see the utter hypocrisy of that second sentence right? 

Authorities in Russia's Bryansk region bordering Ukraine have accused Kyiv of shelling the Russian town of Klimovo and allegedly causing casualties, while the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine (RNBO) rejected the accusations, calling them "an attempt to ignite anti-Ukraine hysteria in Russia."

Russia Accuses Ukraine Of Shelling Its Bryansk Region, Kyiv Rejects Claim (rferl.org)

Sounds more like a false flag operation. There have been a handful of Ukraine attacks in Russia, all were military installations. We are suppose to now think Ukraine wants to hit non-military areas? For what reason? Considering Ukraine has very limited resources to do so, you would think militarily they would want the most bang for their few bucks. 

 

[EdwardV]

Seems about a hundred T-72 tanks recently disappeared from a warehouse in Poland: 

 About 100 modernized T-72 tanks disappeared from the warehouses of the city of Lublin (Poland). This was reported by the Polish news resource Visegrad 24 on Twitter today, April 12. According to the statement, they have recently been upgraded to the T-72M1R standard (thermal imager and other improvements). “…Successful hunting, Ukraine," the newspaper writes. At the same time, the publication emphasized: "The Poles say that the sudden appearance in the Donbas of a large number of T-72 of the Ukrainian army cannot be associated with the disappearance of 100 Polish tanks from Lublin. They say you can buy T-72 in any army store, as well as the weapons used in Crimea in 2014," the resource points out.

Polish Media Report Disappearance Of 100 T-72 Tanks From Warehouses And Wish Ukraine "Successful Hunt" | Ukrainian news (ukranews.com)

This is in addition to the tanks send over by the Czech Republic early this month: 

There are widespread reports that the Czech government has at least begun moving T-72 tanks and BMP-1 infantry fighting vehicles out of storage for transfer to Ukraine. This follows reports over the weekend that the U.S. government would help facilitate the delivery of T-72 tanks from an unspecified NATO member to the Ukrainian armed forces. Last week, the German government had separately approved a request from authorities in the Czech Republic to send ex-East German BMP-1s that they now own to Ukraine.

Ukraine Situation Report: Donated Czech T-72 Tanks, BMP-1 Armored Vehicles Headed To Ukraine (thedrive.com)

 

[Alavan]

3 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

The Russian Defense Ministry announced the day before yesterday that it would strike at decision-making centers, including in Kyiv.

the reason was the shelling of border villages in Russia, in which there is no military infrastructure.

this was before the attack on the ship.

And of course Russia didn’t shell any civilian installations in Ukraine, as we can observe in views from Kiev, Kharkiv and Mariupol

[Fanta]

8 hours ago, EdwardV said:

We are suppose to now think Ukraine wants to hit non-military areas? For what reason?

The same questions can be asked about Russian bombing attacks on civilians areas. Mariupol makes it obvious that Ukraine won’t surrender or pull back it’s forces because civilians are in the line of fire, being killed or areas flattened.
The message being pushed, very effectively, is that the Russians are targeting civilians with their bombing. Ukraine update civilian casualties almost daily but no military loss updates for over a month. Many choose to ignore that the Ukrainian forces in these civilian areas are the targets. I agree that the Russian claims of attacks on Russian civilians are dubious at best, for many reasons. Especially this one —-> 

<video deleted - off topic>

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

The same questions can be asked about Russian bombing attacks on civilians areas. Mariupol makes it obvious that Ukraine won’t surrender or pull back it’s forces because civilians are in the line of fire, being killed or areas flattened.

Personally I think Russia is bombing civilian areas to create refugees. Refugees don’t fight, they flee meaning anyone left is a combatant and to be shot on sight. No hesitation, just shoot. That said the biggest difference is Russia doesn’t care if they kill civilians. Hence why they just carpet bombed Mariupol, a city where most anyone left is a civilian. When was the last time a major city was carpet bombed? WW2? Just wondering. Not sure Mariupol is a good example since it was occupied on day or or two. No time for the civilians to get out. Didn’t help Russia wouldn’t let them afterward (at least not easily or often enough). You do see Ukraine ordering civilians out of the Donbas region. 

Interestingly Ukraine just updated its army casualties today. It was 2.5-3K deaths and another 10K wounded. No doubt somewhat understated as is the normal with most self reported numbers in cases like this. 

[TWS60]

Western media speculating that the cruise missile strike on Kyiv is in retaliation for the attack on the Russian naval ship that didn't happen.   In an unrelated statement from an anonymous Kremlin spokesman, the military awards ceremony scheduled for tomorrow morning in Moscow, recognizing the Moskva's Captain for his valiant efforts to save the stricken ship, has been cancelled due to the unfortunate crash of his transport aircraft in an undisclosed, remote area of Siberia. 

"Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin!  Look me in the eye!  Did you eat the last cup cake, young man?"

"No, Mom!  Wasn't me!  Honest!" 

 

[Fester]

17 hours ago, Alavan said:

That is also possible, if the “structural damage” was so big that pumps couldn’t keep the ship floating or longitudinal stress was to big resulting in breaking.

They don't have to break to sink.  

[Fester]

12 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

The Russian Defense Ministry announced the day before yesterday that it would strike at decision-making centers, including in Kyiv.

the reason was the shelling of border villages in Russia, in which there is no military infrastructure.

this was before the attack on the ship.

Oh! There you are!

[Fanta]

8 minutes ago, Fester said:

They don't have to break to sink.  

That’s true. Look at the Titanic. It sank and it’s swimming pool is still full. 

[Alavan]

1 hour ago, Fester said:

They don't have to break to sink.  

They have plenty of watertight doors, navy ships even more than merchants

I have seen a reefer cargo after a collision destructed in her number 3 hold to the keel. Still floating and made it to a port for repairs.

Still, impossible to stay in the case of the Moskva as we didn’t know her dammage.

[Fester]

13 minutes ago, Alavan said:

They have plenty of watertight doors, navy ships even more than merchants

I have seen a reefer cargo after a collision destructed in her number 3 hold to the keel. Still floating and made it to a port for repairs.

Still, impossible to stay in the case of the Moskva as we didn’t know her dammage.

And I have seen vessels completely sink with their keels/frames being intact.

If enough watertight compartments are breached, then sinking is to be expected.

[Marble-eye]

Why do the Russians always lie about these occurrences, surely they must know they'll be caught out and made to look bigger fools than they already are.

They initially said that a fire had started on board, then it had been contained, then it was going to be towed to Sevastopol, then it sunk in stormy weather and that was after Martians tried to get it on to one of their spacecrafts to be used as salvage at a later date.

But it has been reported that just a few dozen sailors from a compliment of well over 500 had been rescued from the Moskva. Putin does not care for his people never mind the Ukranians.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/15/loss-of-moskva-strikes-serious-blow-to-russian-militarys-prestige

 

[KRLMRX]

14 hours ago, EdwardV said:

The implication being Russia had not struck Kyiv before? A threat to do something Russia already fully intends to do anyway is hollow. 

You do see the utter hypocrisy of that second sentence right? 

Authorities in Russia's Bryansk region bordering Ukraine have accused Kyiv of shelling the Russian town of Klimovo and allegedly causing casualties, while the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine (RNBO) rejected the accusations, calling them "an attempt to ignite anti-Ukraine hysteria in Russia."

Russia Accuses Ukraine Of Shelling Its Bryansk Region, Kyiv Rejects Claim (rferl.org)

Sounds more like a false flag operation. There have been a handful of Ukraine attacks in Russia, all were military installations. We are suppose to now think Ukraine wants to hit non-military areas? For what reason? Considering Ukraine has very limited resources to do so, you would think militarily they would want the most bang for their few bucks. 

it was about the "decision-making centers in Kyiv." it is strange why they were not attacked before, but such are the statements of the RF Ministry of Defense.

To deceive that it was the Ukrainians who attacked the border villages to justify attacks on Kiev is also meaningless, since attacks on Kiev have been made before.

[vlad]

If there was a explosion caused by a fire on the Moskva as the Russians are claiming  the ship would have been blown apart once the Magazine exploded. Even a small fire can be catastrophic if it is not put out quickly. The Moskva I presume would have had a full magazine including missiles. If the fire was that severe once the fire reached the magazine it would have been more or less blown to pieces. To me the damage was caused my 2 ship to shore missiles these are not what people are thinking that are fired like a RPG.  1 can do enough damage to sink a vessel look at HMS Sheffield, HMS Coventry both hit by 1 Exocet the Atlantic Conveyor a massive container ship again hit by 1 well aimed Exocet. The Moskva was hit by 2 missiles. Once the control room is damaged the ships machinary, fire fighting systems, would be useless pumps would be not working so water will Quickly Enter if the water is not pumped out quickly its only a matter of time before it will sink.

[vlad]

Strange Comrade that Missiles targeted from Belarus or the other side of the Ukrainian border targeted a Missile factory outside of Kyiv in retaliation for the loss of the Moskva. Another home goal for the EX Tv comedian I'm afraid Comrade. The once-feared Russian Bear has now been reduced to a child's teddy bear. In the eyes of the World an embarrassment.

[Fanta]

30 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

Why do the Russians always lie about these occurrences, surely they must know they'll be caught out and made to look bigger fools than they already are.

It is called propaganda, a communication tool used in times of war and peace. Some people are convinced that only Russia is using propaganda in this war. Go figure…. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

[Marble-eye]

16 minutes ago, Fanta said:

It is called propaganda, a communication tool used in times of war and peace. Some people are convinced that only Russia is using propaganda in this war. Go figure…. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

Where I live it's called lying.

As an aside though did you know that the motto on the Putin coat of arms is: Fabricate And No Truth Allowed.

[Fanta]

24 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

Where I live it's called lying.

As an aside though did you know that the motto on the Putin coat of arms is: Fabricate And No Truth Allowed.

Word games about word games.  Your aside is a poor example of propaganda because  “surely they must know they'll be caught out and made to look bigger fools than they already are.” 

Interesting read that Wikipedia page

With the rise of the internet and social media, Renee Hobbs identified four characteristic design features of many forms of contemporary propaganda: (1) it activates strong emotions; (2) it simplifies information; (3) it appeals to the hopes, fears, and dreams of a targeted audience; and (4) it attacks opponents.^[44]