News Forum - Large Russian war ship struck, abandoned to flames in Black Sea

[EdwardV]

41 minutes ago, Poolie said:

https://www.navylookout.com/can-the-uk-supply-anti-ship-missiles-to-ukraine/

Maybe. No launchers though.

To be fair, that's not really saying much. The missiles themselves are delivered in self contained launch tubes. The only thing the Ukrainians need to do is weld a launch rack to place the tubes. Or only slightly more difficult, truck mounted them which requires a hydraulic lift set up. As you can see from this picture, mounting them in a static location would not be hard at all. 

 

[Poolie]

47 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

To be fair, that's not really saying much. The missiles themselves are delivered in self contained launch tubes. The only thing the Ukrainians need to do is weld a launch rack to place the tubes. Or only slightly more difficult, truck mounted them which requires a hydraulic lift set up. As you can see from this picture, mounting them in a static location would not be hard at all. 

 

Maybe you didn't read the rest of the link.

[EdwardV]

27 minutes ago, Poolie said:

Maybe you didn't read the rest of the link.

You mean this part:

Let us imagine the UK is able to supply a few working Harpoons to Ukraine. They would need to be flown in, mounted on sturdy trailers so they are mobile and concealable to avoid detection by Russian Satellites and drones. The launch computers would require integration and re-programming for land-based operation. Before any attack can be mounted, the missiles would have to be fed with targeting data from a coastal radar or other real-time intelligence sources and competent people assigned to operate the system.

If so, none of that is as hard as they wish you to believe. Setting up the trailers isn't that tough. Ukraine has clearly shown the ability to conceal launchers, hence why there is a Russian ship sinking right now. Same with feeding missiles with real time targeting data and having competent people to operate them. The I highly doubt they can't integrate the launch computers for land, after all the programs already exist. Harpoon is 70s era technology, it's not a hard thing to set up. No doubt it will take some level of effort and time, but I just can't see it taking much.

Excuse me if I picked the wrong part, if so let me know what part you meant. Thanks. 

On a related side note, Norway is considering donating their highly advanced stealth Naval Strike Missile: 

“Norway has our NSM anti-ship missile – a modern and powerful weapon that could change the course of the war of Russia against Ukraine. I believe that NSM should be delivered to Ukraine. The same applies to Norway’s leading NASAMS anti-aircraft missile systems, which should be delivered to Ukraine to strengthen its air defenses,” he said.

Norwegian Parliament is proposing to transfer the NASAMS air defense and NSM strike missiles to Ukraine - Militarnyi

If the Russian's can't even shoot down a Neptune, there is no way they can with these bad boys. It's the same missile the US Navy has begun to use in replacing it's Harpoons. Nasty little guy, you don't even know it's there until it's about to hit the ship.   

[Fester]

2 hours ago, Poolie said:

https://www.navylookout.com/can-the-uk-supply-anti-ship-missiles-to-ukraine/

Maybe. No launchers though.

Optional trailers are mentioned in your article.

[EdwardV]

5 hours ago, Poolie said:

Maybe you didn't read the rest of the link.

You might find this interesting as it relates to this subtopic (start around 2:40 mark):

Bad weather in Ukraine is ‘bogging down’ Russian army | Robert Fox - YouTube

Basically he's saying the Royal Navy has been training the Ukrainian army in littoral combat. Which of course would account for them lighting up the Moskva like a roman candle. It's also not a large jump to think there is a tie-in with the UK sending Harpoons and expecting it to be more than a symbolic gift.  

Oh it's being reported the Moskva sunk:

The Russian Defense Ministry said the ship sank in a storm while being towed to a port. Russia earlier said the flames on the ship, which would typically have 500 sailors on board, forced the entire crew to evacuate. It later said the blaze had been contained and that the ship would be towed to port with its missile launchers intact.

Flagship of Russia’s Black Sea fleet sinks after suffering heavy damage (msn.com)

A missile strike would explain why Russia is now moving the rest of the black sea fleet away from Ukraine:

Russia has reportedly moved several military sea vessels further away from Ukraine's coast after its prized Moskva warship suffered what Ukrainian officials said was a missile strike on Thursday.

Russia Moves Ships to Safer Location After Ukraine Missile Attack (msn.com)

Of course Russia said it wasn't a missile, so maybe they just like the weather better over there. 

[Lawyers_Guns_and_Money]

12 hours ago, Thaiger said:

As Russia’s war in Ukraine enters its 50th day, its flagship cruiser has been abandoned to flames in the Black Sea, after allegedly being struck by cruise missiles. At least, that’s the Ukrainian side of the story. Russia state media reported on Wednesday that a fire onboard the ship had detonated ammunition, requiring sailors to abandon ship. They made no mention of a Ukrainian strike. Neither did they report any casualties. A guided missile cruiser, Moskva is the flagship of the Russian navy’s Black Sea fleet. Storms over the area have so far obscured satellite imagery, preventing visual confirmation of […]

The story Large Russian war ship struck, abandoned to flames in Black Sea as seen on Thaiger News.

Read the full story

Tomorrow Russia will announce they are waging war against Ukraine because they are polluting the Black Sea.

[brownronin]

lol, it's now sunk, haha

[Politenessman]

11 hours ago, Poolie said:

https://www.navylookout.com/can-the-uk-supply-anti-ship-missiles-to-ukraine/

Maybe. No launchers though.

Don't bet on it. when you supply rifles, you don't list every part of the CES as it is taken as obvious.

Supplying missiles strongly suggests supplying the ability to launch them.

[Fanta]

<content deleted as NO comment posted and photo was non compliant>

Edited April 15, 2022 by KaptainRob
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[Rookiescot]

39 minutes ago, brownronin said:

lol, it's now sunk, haha

Hey look on the bright side.

The fire is out.

[WilliamG]

11 hours ago, Marble-eye said:

Reason 2. The Russian navy is totally gormless.

Does that then mean that if the Ruskies are GORMFUL, they are clever?   LOL

[TWS60]

Likely both reports are true.

Ukrainians hit the ship with a missile. 

Russian crew was unable to control/contain the damage. 

[longwood50]

16 hours ago, Politenessman said:

Not necessarily, between poor Russian maintenance and poor damage control procedures, a fire starting and getting dangerously out of control is not inconceivable.

Well the Russians could have hired some Thai maintenance people.  That would certainly explain it. 

[Rookiescot]

5 hours ago, WilliamG said:

Does that then mean that if the Ruskies are GORMFUL, they are clever?   LOL

Would it not be better to say someone is "Full of gorm"?

My English teacher probably covered this at some point but it's highly unlikely I was paying attention at the time.

[Janneman]

Considering the competence of the average Ivan, it just might be an accident. Like someone lighting a cigarette where he shouldn't, something like that.

But if it is true that the ukrainians actually distracted all anti-missile stuff with a simple drone, and then sneakily shot a missile from behind, well.... That's even worse than incompetence caused by stupidity. I would not like to be in the position of the ship's commander now.

[Alavan]

I am not cerain it sank because of the storm. Not enough info to know the cause of the sinking.
I suspect it may be caused by loss of stability by free surface effect. If they used a lot of extinghuising water and it was not pumped out you get a negative stability and capsizing. It is a subject teached in the stability lessons at every navigation school.
The capsizing after fire of the Normandie in New York during WWII was caused by free surface. Also the capsizing of the Herald of Free Enterprise (open bow doors) was caused by that.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, Alavan said:

I am not cerain it sank because of the storm. Not enough info to know the cause of the sinking.
I suspect it may be caused by loss of stability by free surface effect. If they used a lot of extinghuising water and it was not pumped out you get a negative stability and capsizing. It is a subject teached in the stability lessons at every navigation school.
The capsizing after fire of the Normandie in New York during WWII was caused by free surface. Also the capsizing of the Herald of Free Enterprise (open bow doors) was caused by that.

It might also have to do with a couple of large holes in its hull curtesy of the Ukrainians. 

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, Janneman said:

Considering the competence of the average Ivan, it just might be an accident. Like someone lighting a cigarette where he shouldn't, something like that.

But if it is true that the ukrainians actually distracted all anti-missile stuff with a simple drone, and then sneakily shot a missile from behind, well.... That's even worse than incompetence caused by stupidity. I would not like to be in the position of the ship's commander now.

In that case the Ukrainians must be Mystic Meg because they said they had hit the ship with a couple of missiles a few hours before "average Ivan" decided to have a smoke in the ammo store.

[Alavan]

21 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

It might also have to do with a couple of large holes in its hull curtesy of the Ukrainians. 

That is also possible, if the “structural damage” was so big that pumps couldn’t keep the ship floating or longitudinal stress was to big resulting in breaking.

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, Alavan said:

That is also possible, if the “structural damage” was so big that pumps couldn’t keep the ship floating or longitudinal stress was to big resulting in breaking.

Look what happened with ships like the Belgrano, Antelope, Sheffield etc. Too much cabling and aluminium to keep the fires under control. If it spreads to an ammunition store then its goodnight Vienna.

Factor in electrical failures and there goes your pumps too.

[Alavan]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Look what happened with ships like the Belgrano, Antelope, Sheffield etc. Too much cabling and aluminium to keep the fires under control. If it spreads to an ammunition store then its goodnight Vienna.

Factor in electrical failures and there goes your pumps too.

Belgrano was torpedoed. The others to much aluminum plus an exocet

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, Alavan said:

Belgrano was torpedoed. The others to much aluminum plus an exocet

I posted those examples deliberately to show it matters not whether you are torpedoed or suffer a missile strike.

Once fire takes hold it is almost impossible to contain.

[Vigo]

12 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Hey look on the bright side.

The fire is out.

On a  more sombre note; the boat took many tonnes of heavy bunker oil, and significant quantities of toxic pollutants with it. Russia does not have a history of cleaning up its  environmental  messes, so that pollution is going to be destroying the sea for some time.

And as much as I oppose the Russian invasion, I still feel for the young crew who were burnt alive or trapped below deck as the fires and then forced flooding ensued. The Russians don't put much effort into the recovery of lost family members, so I expect there will be many Russian families wondering what happened to their kid.

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, Vigo said:

On a  more sombre note; the boat took many tonnes of heavy bunker oil, and significant quantities of toxic pollutants with it. Russia does not have a history of cleaning up its  environmental  messes, so that pollution is going to be destroying the sea for some time.

And as much as I oppose the Russian invasion, I still feel for the young crew who were burnt alive or trapped below deck as the fires and then forced flooding ensued. The Russians don't put much effort into the recovery of lost family members, so I expect there will be many Russian families wondering what happened to their kid.

On one level I totally agree and regret any loss of life on that ship.

On another level I think they should never have been there in the first place and how many lives did they take with their actions?

None of this would have happened if not for Czar Putins illegal and genocidal invasion.

The deaths of those on that ship are his responsibility. As are those they killed and maimed.

[Benroon]

On 4/14/2022 at 6:57 PM, Zorba_the_Geek said:

Zelenskyy is the Churchill of our Century. 

Stand with Ukraine in its darkest hour; that they shall never surrender!

Why do you think Boris is sticking to him like shit to a blanket.

However fabulous news of the sinking