Canadian Expat Pension Advice

[RDP]

 

Canadian Expat Pension Advice 

Seeking some Canadian expat advice here.  I am looking into different Canada options once I retire fully in Canada and understand the Canadian CPP / OAS / GIS rules etc., pretty much.  I also understand the rules for getting a Non-Immigrant O-Long Stay Visa (or Retirement Visa) in Thailand.  But, I am weighing either to split 6 months each between Thailand/Canada or staying fully year-round in Thailand, although I understand I would not receive my full pensions / amounts specifically if doing so. 
For staying in Thailand year-round, from what I've gathered, you might not be able to retain a Canadian address / postal address to retain your full pensions being sent / deposited to?  And so, I guess I am asking if this is correct, and if so, wondering if there was another way to do this? (getting my full pensions while in Thailand year-round)  I have looked into this for a while and getting conflicting answers and so wanted to get some first-hand advice.  
Thanks in advance.   

 

[BeerIsLife]

A bit tough in Canada.... if you are willing to "bend" the rules a bit, here is what I heard may work.   If you are planning to be in a foreign country full time, use a friend or relative's home as your address in Canada for mailing and residence purposes.  Otherwise, you lose your OAS for the months that you are away.  Chances of getting caught are about zero.   Or use a PO box for mailing and friend/family for residence. That way your friend/family aren't bothered by your mail.  Most things are online these days so you can probably get away with it. 

 

Be sure to file tax returns each year too.   

[RDP]

Yah that used to work, but not these days and why I posted this.  To find a way "around" the new standard.  Many people used to do what you suggested but they caught on.  I wrote this to another guy a few days ago from a other site:  

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Also, they do know how long you are away now. Bill C-21 passed in July of 2019 now links The Canadian Border Services Agency and Revenue Canada.  You are correct, they were not previously connected and people abused the system for years.  The government finally caught on about 5 years ago and I knew something was going to eventually happen and it did with that bill.  I talked with a Canadian last week who moved to Thailand (year-round) 3 years ago as it was passed and he had no idea too.  He said he is using a friend's address in Canada and they collected his cheques/deposited them for him and he just withdrew his funds in Thailand by ATM.  I told him to put a little away as his luck may run out someday. He is not happy today after learning this and he also saw where the government says once they see a discrepancy in dates, they stop all pensions, call you in, in-person, and they figure out the amount you owe them back + interest + fines.  As you can see, going back to my original post, why I am looking around for an "alternative" way if there is one, to get around this.  But it seems pretty tight.  

https://www.canada.ca/en/border-services-agency/news/2018/12/royal-assent-of-bill-c-21-strengthens-border-management.html

And it does matter trying to find a way around it. This as of course, if you spend 183 days / year now (and they know it) you can retain all pensions for sure. But, if you are going to be gone for more than 6 months, you will be considered a non-resident.  That's okay as the government will send both CPP & OAS to another country for you but different countries have different "Non-Resident Withholding Tax" rates for treaty countries.  Canada does not have a treaty with Thailand, and so for countries with no treaty, automatically, they take 25% of any pensions (in Thailand's case, each the CPP & OAS).   On top of that, you lose all your GIS as you "must" be in Canada 183 days/year to retain that.  So again, you can see why I am asking around as this bill has made it much harder.  Especially if you have good money coming from all 3 Canadian pensions and you want to live in Thailand (or elsewhere) year-round.  For a Canadian in this case, you would lose 25% of CPP & OAS plus all the GIS.    

Government link below does not show Thailand so it's 25% as mentioned in the paragraph above
https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/cpp-international/before-apply.html#tax

Page 4 / last column "Pensions"
https://assets.kpmg/content/dam/kpmg/pdf/2016/06/Non-Resident-Withholding-Tax-Rates-for-Treaty-Countries-v2.pdf

 

[RDP]

On 4/26/2022 at 2:54 AM, BeerIsLife said:

A bit tough in Canada.... if you are willing to "bend" the rules a bit, here is what I heard may work.   If you are planning to be in a foreign country full time, use a friend or relative's home as your address in Canada for mailing and residence purposes.  Otherwise, you lose your OAS for the months that you are away.  Chances of getting caught are about zero.   Or use a PO box for mailing and friend/family for residence. That way your friend/family aren't bothered by your mail.  Most things are online these days so you can probably get away with it. 

Be sure to file tax returns each year too.   

 

Yah that used to work, but not these days and why I posted this.  To find a way "around" the new standard.  Many people used to do what you suggested but they caught on.  I wrote this to another guy a few days ago from a other site:  

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, they do know how long you are away now. Bill C-21 passed in July of 2019 now links The Canadian Border Services Agency and Revenue Canada.  You are correct, they were not previously connected and people abused the system for years.  The government finally caught on about 5 years ago and I knew something was going to eventually happen and it did with that bill.  I talked with a Canadian last week who moved to Thailand (year-round) 3 years ago as it was passed and he had no idea too.  He said he is using a friend's address in Canada and they collected his cheques/deposited them for him and he just withdrew his funds in Thailand by ATM.  I told him to put a little away as his luck may run out someday. He is not happy today after learning this and he also saw where the government says once they see a discrepancy in dates, they stop all pensions, call you in, in-person, and they figure out the amount you owe them back + interest + fines.  As you can see, going back to my original post, why I am looking around for an "alternative" way if there is one, to get around this.  But it seems pretty tight.  

https://www.canada.ca/en/border-services-agency/news/2018/12/royal-assent-of-bill-c-21-strengthens-border-management.html

And it does matter trying to find a way around it. This as of course, if you spend 183 days / year now (and they know it) you can retain all pensions for sure. But, if you are going to be gone for more than 6 months, you will be considered a non-resident.  That's okay as the government will send both CPP & OAS to another country for you but different countries have different "Non-Resident Withholding Tax" rates for treaty countries.  Canada does not have a treaty with Thailand, and so for countries with no treaty, automatically, they take 25% of any pensions (in Thailand's case, each the CPP & OAS).   On top of that, you lose all your GIS as you "must" be in Canada 183 days/year to retain that.  So again, you can see why I am asking around as this bill has made it much harder.  Especially if you have good money coming from all 3 Canadian pensions and you want to live in Thailand (or elsewhere) year-round.  For a Canadian in this case, you would lose 25% of CPP & OAS plus all the GIS.    

Government link below does not show Thailand so it's 25% as mentioned in the paragraph above
https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/cpp-international/before-apply.html#tax

Page 4 / last column "Pensions"
https://assets.kpmg/content/dam/kpmg/pdf/2016/06/Non-Resident-Withholding-Tax-Rates-for-Treaty-Countries-v2.pdf

 

[RDP]

On 4/11/2022 at 3:34 PM, RDP said:

Canadian Expat Pension Advice 

Seeking some Canadian expat advice here.  I am looking into different Canada options once I retire fully in Canada and understand the Canadian CPP / OAS / GIS rules etc., pretty much.  I also understand the rules for getting a Non-Immigrant O-Long Stay Visa (or Retirement Visa) in Thailand.  But, I am weighing either to split 6 months each between Thailand/Canada or staying fully year-round in Thailand, although I understand I would not receive my full pensions / amounts specifically if doing so. 
For staying in Thailand year-round, from what I've gathered, you might not be able to retain a Canadian address / postal address to retain your full pensions being sent / deposited to?  And so, I guess I am asking if this is correct, and if so, wondering if there was another way to do this? (getting my full pensions while in Thailand year-round)  I have looked into this for a while and getting conflicting answers and so wanted to get some first-hand advice.  
Thanks in advance.   

Forgot this sorry:

 

Canada Border Services Agency - Canada Revenue Agency

DATA COLLECTION
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/btb-pdf/eedcu-cudes-eng.html#s1

DATA USE BY FEDERAL PARTNERS: (Note final line) 
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/btb-pdf/eedcu-cudes-eng.html#s5