News Forum - Missile attack on train station kills 52 Ukrainians, Russia denies involvement

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, Guest1 said:

It was "a friendhip", to get  back on and in Iran. 

After Ayatholla Khomeni kicked out the Shah, who was the  gurantor for the US and GB oil billions from Iran oil, they feeded Hussein for/in the Irak/Iran war.  That was just for Oil, like all of the wars in that area. Oh, the last Irak war was also because of the US$: Saddam started already to sale in other currencies. Same mistake, Gaddhafi did. Same result. Also Syria was never a "free the people" mission. Just trying to defend own oil interests!

It is/was not all about communism or  democracy or such. Just sounds better, as Oil $'s

Thread is about the Ukraine and Russias illegal invasion and genocide therein.

Why dont you get back onto that.

[EdwardV]

 

The Russian military on Wednesday threatened to strike Ukraine's command centres in the capital Kyiv if Ukrainian troops continue to attack Russian territory. "We are seeing Ukrainian troops' attempts to carry out sabotage and strike Russian territory," the Russian defence ministry said in a statement. "If such cases continue, the Russian armed forces will strike decision-making centres, including in Kyiv."

Moscow Threatens To Strike Kyiv Command 'Centres' If Ukraine Keeps Attacking Russia | Barron's (barrons.com)

So it's ok for Russia to bomb the stuffing out of Ukraine, but if they return the favor the gloves are off? Only to a Russian does threating violence to someone you are working hard at killing makes sense. You can't make this stuff up. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Freeduhdumb]

17 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Is Mariupol near Kyiv?

But lets face facts here, no the Russians have been chased out of north and north east Ukraine where do you think and those Ukrainian forces along with their western supplied weapons are heading?

The defenders of Mariupol should be proud. They held that city until they ran out of ammunition. Do you think Russian conscripts will be able to do the same?

I was merely correcting you... that the Russians were not in retreat. Russia has not militarily taken Kiev, because it would be a blood bath, Lavrov has said as much. They understand this the seat of political power and they need Kiev intact to force a settlement. The focus right from the outset has always been the extremist Neo-Nazi elements Azov/Right Sector. Their strong hold has been Mariupol... this has fallen, only those who follow this very closely can predict what is coming next. 

[Freeduhdumb]

16 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Who is this clown btw? I just watched that video. If this is where all you Czar Putin apologists get your information from then you are all sadly misinformed. 

You are once again clearly demonstrating your lack of knowledge and historical perspective on all of this... allow me to get you up to speed friend... 

What we are witnessing in the Ukraine-Russian war is the apparent West's continued psychopathic, commitment to drag the current situation out for as long as it takes to get what they want. If the West had had ANY sincere commitment to either the Minsk Accords or to peace in Ukraine, it would have long ago forced Kiev to enter into direct negotiations with the recognized breakaway republics of LPR and DPR in Donbass and to implement all the aspects of the Minsk Accords. It hasn't done so because it knows that a federated Ukrainian state, as envisaged by the Minsk agreement, would never support joining NATO as this would be vetoed by the Donbass. A federal Ukraine would also never join the EU, which demanded back in 2013, as a condition of doing business with Ukraibe, that Ukraine not participate in the Eurasian trading block. With that demand, the EU deliberately violated the Budapest Memorandum (its Article 3, prohibiting the use of economic blackmail for geopolitical ends), the only international legal document that guaranteed Ukraine's territorial integrity. It was for his refusal to sign on to that EU bit of geopolitical extortion that Yanukovich had to be removed from power by the west in a coup de tat, regime change operation back in 2014. That regime change operation, and failure to fully implement those Minsk accords, is in fact what has set all of the events in motion that have lead up to our present situation. Now that the "West" has forced the hand of Russia... we are now witnessing the effects of REAL war. Let us not forget, there are no rules in war. The only question now is, will the West continue to push this into a wider global hot war. 

[Rookiescot]

12 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

I was merely correcting you... that the Russians were not in retreat. Russia has not militarily taken Kiev, because it would be a blood bath, Lavrov has said as much. They understand this the seat of political power and they need Kiev intact to force a settlement. The focus right from the outset has always been the extremist Neo-Nazi elements Azov/Right Sector. Their strong hold has been Mariupol... this has fallen, only those who follow this very closely can predict what is coming next. 

The focus from the outset was Mariupol?

So why try and surround Kyiv (note spelling)? Why try and seize the two airports outside Kyiv?

Lavrov is almost as big a liar as Czar Putin. The fact is they were fought to a standstill outside Kyiv and were then forced to retreat. Thats a military defeat.

The Ukrainians are now going to move many of those now battle hardened troops from the north to the southeast. Russian conscripts, poorly equipped and supplied with low moral are not going to be able to stop them.

[Freeduhdumb]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

The focus from the outset was Mariupol?

So why try and surround Kyiv (note spelling)? Why try and seize the two airports outside Kyiv?

Lavrov is almost as big a liar as Czar Putin. The fact is they were fought to a standstill outside Kyiv and were then forced to retreat. Thats a military defeat.

The Ukrainians are now going to move many of those now battle hardened troops from the north to the southeast. Russian conscripts, poorly equipped and supplied with low moral are not going to be able to stop them.

Question: What war college did you go to? Or what military experience do you have to come this conclusion? It's a serious question... it would lend some credence to your suppositions here.

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

You are once again clearly demonstrating your lack of knowledge and historical perspective on all of this... allow me to get you up to speed friend...

Nonsense. Clearly my 10 year old daughter knows more about this than you do.

5 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

If the West had had ANY sincere commitment to either the Minsk Accords or to peace in Ukraine, it would have long ago forced Kiev to enter into direct negotiations with the recognized breakaway republics of LPR and DPR in Donbass and to implement all the aspects of the Minsk Accords

Recognised by who? Russia? Pffft. The reasons the Minsk accords failed was because of infractions by the Russian backed terrorists in a small part the Donbass. Particularly by the neonazi Wagner group.

10 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

It hasn't done so because it knows that a federated Ukrainian state, as envisaged by the Minsk agreement, would never support joining NATO as this would be vetoed by the Donbass. A federal Ukraine would also never join the EU, which demanded back in 2013, as a condition of doing business with Ukraibe, that Ukraine not participate in the Eurasian trading block. With that demand, the EU deliberately violated the Budapest Memorandum (its Article 3, prohibiting the use of economic blackmail for geopolitical ends), the only international legal document that guaranteed Ukraine's territorial integrity. It was for his refusal to sign on to that EU bit of geopolitical extortion that Yanukovich had to be removed from power by the west in a coup de tat, regime change operation back in 2014. That regime change operation, and failure to fully implement those Minsk accords, is in fact what has set all of the events in motion that have lead up to our present situation

Whether the Ukraine wants to trade with the EU or not is their business. Its not up to Russia. Economic blackmail? What are you talking about? You understand that the Budapest Memorandum, which Russia signed, guaranteed that Russia would not invade the Ukraine. That of course was violated by Russia when it marched into the Crimea. And again in the Kerche Straight incident. And once again in its latest illegal and genocidal invasion.

The fact the Ukraine wants closer ties to the west rather than a country with a habit of invading it and seizing territory along with supporting terrorists within its borders is hardly surprising is it?

20 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

Now that the "West" has forced the hand of Russia... we are now witnessing the effects of REAL war. Let us not forget, there are no rules in war. The only question now is, will the West continue to push this into a wider global hot war.

The west did not force Czar Putins hand. He wants the old empire back and thought the Ukraine and the rest of the world would roll over and accept it. He was wrong. Now he needs something to show the Russian people that he is winning. Expect him to get ever more desperate and start using WMD's.

There are rules in war. Read the Geneva Convention which Russia has signed. Especially section 4 which outlines protection of civilians.

[Rookiescot]

20 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

Question: What war college did you go to? Or what military experience do you have to come this conclusion? It's a serious question... it would lend some credence to your suppositions here.

None of your business.

[Rookiescot]

Seems the Russians are not even safe at sea.

Russia says warship ‘seriously damaged’ by explosion as Putin builds forces in east Ukraine | Ukraine | The Guardian

Of course after it sinks the Czar Putin apologists will claim it has simply been converted into a submarine. Which was the plan all along. 

[vlad]

40 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Seems the Russians are not even safe at sea.

Russia says warship ‘seriously damaged’ by explosion as Putin builds forces in east Ukraine | Ukraine | The Guardian

Of course after it sinks the Czar Putin apologists will claim it has simply been converted into a submarine. Which was the plan all along. 

No Rookie his excuse already is it had a fire it's now being reported that 2 Neptune Anti-Ship missiles hit it fired from Ukrainian troops. Can't really say this is correct again only substantiated at the moment however if 2 missiles struck it I'd expect crew Deaths. Biden has given over 800 Million dollars worth of kit for Ukraine including MI helicopters earmarked for Afghan which are now not needed.

 

19:20

US announces $800m in military support for Ukraine

 

[Fanta]

23 minutes ago, vlad said:

however if 2 missiles struck it I'd expect crew Deaths

If all the ammo in the ship blew up as the Russians claim, I’d expect crew deaths. Neither side is admitting actual casualties but that’s a part of the propaganda pie, overstate the wins and understate the losses.

The Russians haven’t announced new updates claimed losses for 3 weeks and the only figure the Ukrainians update seems to update is the claimed civilian deaths which are 10 times higher than NATO estimates.  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

[Freeduhdumb]

21 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Thread is about the Ukraine and Russias illegal invasion and genocide therein.

Why dont you get back onto that.

Typical response when I am directly over the exact point of "Ukraine and Russias illegal invasion" and you have nothing substantial to add. The reason you don't have anything credible to add, EVER... is YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT THE EFF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

[Freeduhdumb]

4 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

None of your business.

Translation... You don't know what the eff you are talking about. You have no background AT ALL to be making any statements about this conflict... You really just need to stop. But I digress... you are a fine representative of most of the commentators on this topic. 

[Marble-eye]

28 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

Translation... You don't know what the eff you are talking about. You have no background AT ALL to be making any statements about this conflict... You really just need to stop. But I digress... you are a fine representative of most of the commentators on this topic. 

Would it be fair to say FDD that you are a very poor loser.

[Freeduhdumb]

Just now, Marble-eye said:

Would it be fair to say FDD that you are a very poor loser.

You're free to look at it however you want friend... 

[Rookiescot]

59 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

Typical response when I am directly over the exact point of "Ukraine and Russias illegal invasion" and you have nothing substantial to add. The reason you don't have anything credible to add, EVER... is YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT THE EFF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

So lost for a rebuttal you simply resort to insults.

Disappointing. But predictable. 

[Freeduhdumb]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So lost for a rebuttal you simply resort to insults.

Disappointing. But predictable. 

It's a professional judgement... good luck friend.

[Rookiescot]

49 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

Translation... You don't know what the eff you are talking about. You have no background AT ALL to be making any statements about this conflict... You really just need to stop. But I digress... you are a fine representative of most of the commentators on this topic. 

Ah so because I refuse to give you personal information we get this hissy fit.

Many on here do know I am qualified to give an opinion on military matters.

You can simply add the fact you do not to the long list of things you know nothing about.

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, Freeduhdumb said:

It's a professional judgement... good luck friend.

What is a professional judgement? The fact you have no idea about how to prosecute a modern mechanised war? Well you would not be alone in that because obviously the Russian commanders and Czar Putin seem to have about the same level of understanding.

Tell me oh guru of all matters military. When have armored units proven successful and when have they failed? In which wars were they machines of overwhelming firepower bringing swift victory and when were they dismal failures?

Take your time my young padawan. I have patience.

[Freeduhdumb]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

What is a professional judgement? The fact you have no idea about how to prosecute a modern mechanised war? Well you would not be alone in that because obviously the Russian commanders and Czar Putin seem to have about the same level of understanding.

Tell me oh guru of all matters military. When have armored units proven successful and when have they failed? In which wars were they machines of overwhelming firepower bringing swift victory and when were they dismal failures?

Take your time my young padawan. I have patience.

Good Luck friend.

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

Good Luck friend.

Oh dont give up this is an opportunity to expand your knowledge and we can discuss the matter hopefully without insults.

Now the question I asked was in which wars have tanks been successful and in which wars have they proven to be useless?

Have a go at it. You might find the subject fun.

[Freeduhdumb]

6 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

You are once again clearly demonstrating your lack of knowledge and historical perspective on all of this... allow me to get you up to speed friend... 

What we are witnessing in the Ukraine-Russian war is the apparent West's continued psychopathic, commitment to drag the current situation out for as long as it takes to get what they want. If the West had had ANY sincere commitment to either the Minsk Accords or to peace in Ukraine, it would have long ago forced Kiev to enter into direct negotiations with the recognized breakaway republics of LPR and DPR in Donbass and to implement all the aspects of the Minsk Accords. It hasn't done so because it knows that a federated Ukrainian state, as envisaged by the Minsk agreement, would never support joining NATO as this would be vetoed by the Donbass. A federal Ukraine would also never join the EU, which demanded back in 2013, as a condition of doing business with Ukraibe, that Ukraine not participate in the Eurasian trading block. With that demand, the EU deliberately violated the Budapest Memorandum (its Article 3, prohibiting the use of economic blackmail for geopolitical ends), the only international legal document that guaranteed Ukraine's territorial integrity. It was for his refusal to sign on to that EU bit of geopolitical extortion that Yanukovich had to be removed from power by the west in a coup de tat, regime change operation back in 2014. That regime change operation, and failure to fully implement those Minsk accords, is in fact what has set all of the events in motion that have lead up to our present situation. Now that the "West" has forced the hand of Russia... we are now witnessing the effects of REAL war. Let us not forget, there are no rules in war. The only question now is, will the West continue to push this into a wider global hot war.