List: China has over 50% of all foreign-owned condos in Thailand

[Thaiger]

A list was recently released to the media regarding condo ownership in Thailand and from what countries condo owners originated. Foreigners have purchased approximately 1.4 million condominiums throughout the country. Of those, the top 10 list showed that over half of all foreign-owned condos in Thailand hail from China. Nearly 730,000 condominiums throughout Thailand are owned by Chinese nationals, just shy of 52% of all foreign-owned condos in Thailand. China topped the list by a huge margin with nearly 10 times more condos being owned by people from the nation than any other country. Figures like this help explain Thailand’s […]

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[Bangkok_Gary]

Hey Thailand, "All your base are belong to us." -- China

[Fegelein]

Selling out their country bit by bit to China. Money above anything else.

[Lucian]

It would be more insightful if the foreign purchasers are categorized by country against bands of property values. Eg percentage of buyers from each country who bought properties worth <B5 million, B5-15 million, B15-30 million etc. This way we can see the spending power of the buyers. For instance if the majority of the Chinese buyers bought properties less than B5 million, then it isn’t good for Thailand as they are competing against the average Thai and also drive up property prices in that segment, making it more difficult for Thais to own properties. 

[Stardust]

Chinese buy condos for speculation and not for living and it is the no1 invest and speculation in China, too. Thats how they pump up the econonmy in China by building new cities with high rise condo but often in a  scary very low quality . You can see new build cities without habitants in China just build for speculations.

[KaptainRob]

It would not surprise me to see data showing well over 50% of new house sales in Chiang Mai as Chinese owned. 

I know many developments are financed by Chinese (thru Thai company set ups) and designed for Airbnb type accommodation.  Some are massive 2 or 3 story, twin structures on single plots.

The pity of this is the Chinese 'Airbnb' operations do not benefit Thai's.  Rent monies stay in China.  Furthermore, local hotels who (may) pay taxes and wages, miss out on the business.

[King Cotton]

1 hour ago, Fegelein said:

 . . . Money above anything else.

Yes, that's what they're most in need of, having spent most of the kitty on one thing or another.

Hello, Fegelein and welcome to Thaiger Talk

Please feel free to tell us a bit about yourself in 'Introductions'. It's good to pick-up on those sometimes differing regional or geographical perspectives.

And check-out the Guidelines, too, when you get a free minute. They're there to help us all enjoy our time here.

Happy posting

King Cotton

[King Cotton]

1 hour ago, Lucian said:

if the foreign purchasers are categorized by country against bands of property values.

Ha-ha . . . some insightful person with bags of time could maybe conduct a survey for that!

Hello, Lucian and welcome to Thaiger Talk

Please feel free to tell us a bit about yourself in 'Introductions'. It's good to pick-up on those sometimes differing regional or geographical perspectives.

And check-out the Guidelines, too, when you get a free minute. They're there to help us all enjoy our time here.

Happy posting

King Cotton

[Poolie]

So? Anybody taken a survey of, say, Spanish property, owned by Brits?  Different cultures own different property across the world for different reasons.

[TobyAndrews]

I hope these are inscrutable Chinese as they see the value of their condos plummet. 

[EdwardV]

The Chinese are not buying for speculation, it’s capital flight. Foreign residential property is a safe place to park assents. It’s durable, holds its value well, easily convertible and best of all outside the grasp of the CCP. They are doing the same thing in several countries, notably Canada and the US. Any Chinese that can is getting whatever money they can the heck out of China. It’s a huge problem for the CCP, as they are losing about $2T per year. It’s particularly bad in Canada as it’s distorting the market in cities like Vancouver. It’s so bad the Canadians are instituting laws trying to curb the practice. That said it’s not really easy as most Chinese don’t have the, shall we say the “ability”, to get large amounts of money out of the country. 

[TobyAndrews]

I was in Moose Jaw Canada once. They would welcome the Chinese there. They would welcome anyone there.

The property would be very competitively priced . . .

[KaptainRob]

3 hours ago, EdwardV said:

The Chinese are not buying for speculation, it’s capital flight. Foreign residential property is a safe place to park assents. It’s durable, holds its value well, easily convertible and best of all outside the grasp of the CCP. They are doing the same thing in several countries, notably Canada and the US. Any Chinese that can is getting whatever money they can the heck out of China. It’s a huge problem for the CCP, as they are losing about $2T per year. It’s particularly bad in Canada as it’s distorting the market in cities like Vancouver. It’s so bad the Canadians are instituting laws trying to curb the practice. That said it’s not really easy as most Chinese don’t have the, shall we say the “ability”, to get large amounts of money out of the country. 

Correct analysis Edward. Same in all countries incl NZ and Australia.  NZ had to introduce laws to stop speculative buying by non-residents. 

I'm told it's especially easy for Chinese to move money out for purchasing a property in any 'friendly' countries or those which are part of the Belt & Road.  Not sure how correct that is.

[Poolie]

Not at all, would be my reply to that.

[AussieBob]

11 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

It would not surprise me to see data showing well over 50% of new house sales in Chiang Mai as Chinese owned. 

I know many developments are financed by Chinese (thru Thai company set ups) and designed for Airbnb type accommodation.  Some are massive 2 or 3 story, twin structures on single plots.

The pity of this is the Chinese 'Airbnb' operations do not benefit Thai's.  Rent monies stay in China.  Furthermore, local hotels who (may) pay taxes and wages, miss out on the business.

Like property sales, I think in the end that it will become clear that most of the Chinese tourist money does not benefit ordinary Thais either. After the Junta took over there was a massive focus on Chinese tourists with over-exaggerated statements of their value by TAT (as they always do). But the reality is that from 2015 onwards less and less tourist money made it into the hands of ordinary Thais, even as millions of extra tourists from China arrived. As we found out quickly in Aust - they arrive in pre-paid groups and spend most of their money with CCP approved businesses (Chinese owned). They are not worth all the trouble and Aust stopped focussing on them - now Aust is after European/UK/US bakpackers and working tourists who spend money with local Aussies.  TAT started heavily focussing on the Chinese tourists in 2015 and then the Indians in 2016 - but both groups are renown for not spending a lot with the local Thai establishments - despite TAT numbers claiming billions of extra Thai Baht into the economy.  The same thing is being done with purchasing property by the Chinese - it is not and never will be to the benefit of ordinary Thais because they (unlike others who buy property) do not spend much time living and spending money in Thailand. The wealthy developers etc love it because all their propertys get sold - and of course we know what they do to ensure more developments get approved and more sales to Chinses speculators happen. It is all very sad for ordinary Thais - they are being sold out. 

[KaptainRob]

@AussieBob Your overall comments are 100% correct except for 'laying blame' on the Junta.  As you may recall, the World was already feeling the effects of recession since approx 2010 and tourism, especially from Europe, was dropping off slowly.  By ~2015 there were far ffewer Euro, Aus, or US tourist arrivals.  This demographic never improved.  

Meanwhile, Chinese were spreading their wings.  Factory workers and others who never normally traveled abroad, arrived in group tours on annual holidays and special occasions.  They came by the plane load and were ferried around by the 52 seat busload, often in convoys of up to 6 vehicles.  You are correct, they stayed in Cn owned hotels, ate buffets (mainly) at Cn owned restaurants and went on Cn operated tours.

This travel phenomena cannot be blamed on the Government.  Allowing them to buy land and houses via Chinese/Thai law* firms for use as Airbnb, can!

* Technically illegal transactions but a loophole easily manipulated by $ome.

[AussieBob]

KR - you are right in that the blame is not all on the Junta, as international tourism into Thailand from the 'west' was declining already in 2015.  I think that it was also due to other more 'appealing' SEAsia destinations emerging after the GFC, including Vietnam and China itself.  I know of one group of blokes that went to Thailand for a golf tour every year for a while, but they swapped to China in 2016 (Mission Hills near HK) and it was much cheaper and a far better experience - except for the food :)   Golf course building in both Vietnam and China was booming before Covid, and is now starting to ramp back up - Greg Norman's company is involved in many of them in Vietnam (50+ I believe).  There are very few new medium/high golf courses in Thailand - nothing like in those other countries - and from what I saw many golf courses in Thailand are in decline (and they are ridiculously expensive compared to others).  I use golf, but that switch has apparently happened in most 'western' tourist attractions in SEAsia since 2010.  On more point - 'tourists' from China are not really tourists as we know it.  Most Chinese people have to go through some hoops to 'apply' to go on an overseas holiday - and they are often 'guided' towards approved CCP destinations - which under the Thai Junta has included Thailand way more than before.  That is all anecdotal of course, from informal sources, because all such matters inside China are heavily censored and media organisations do not like to upset the 'gorilla'.  Our PM has been giving them grief lately and look where that has got him.

 

[KaptainRob]

@AussieBob - a good post and spot on too.  As I mentioned, these Cn 'tourists' (as defined by TAT), come in large groups, a plane-load at a time and usually as a holiday bonus by the company they work for.  They are largely peasants, or were so before industrialisation, and have no idea how to behave outside China.  Hence they'll stop in the middle of a busy 5 lane road to take a photo or consult an app.  They've even been spotted defecating in public areas.

NZ, Aus, and other more distant destinations get the better educated and wealthy tourists.  Well, maybe not Aus so much from now on, huh?  Before anyone thinks I'm being racist, it's the Thai's who despise the type of Cn tourist we get here.

If I had the opportunity to do so, I would seriously consider living in Vietnam.  I love the people and their food and culture derived partly from French rule.  Hoi An would suit me.

[AlexPTY]

Should not be surprising and Chinese were always shrewd and smart investors. China is almost fully recovered from covid and sitting on tons of cash now.

Let's face it, China is a superpower and while other superpowers trying to suppress China, they just do what they do best: buy and control.

Bangkok Bank: belong to Chinese conglomerate.... want to know more? Just search top 10 Thai corporations ownership on WiKi.

[KaptainRob]

8 minutes ago, AlexPTY said:

~ Bangkok Bank: belong to Chinese conglomerate.... want to know more? Just search top 10 Thai corporations ownership on WiKi.

Thailand's stock exchange, the SET via Thai NVDR Co Ltd is Bangkok Bank's majority owner according to Wiki.  Do you have an alternate source of information?

[Buttaxe]

40 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

@AussieBob - a good post and spot on too.  As I mentioned, these Cn 'tourists' (as defined by TAT), come in large groups, a plane-load at a time and usually as a holiday bonus by the company they work for.  They are largely peasants, or were so before industrialisation, and have no idea how to behave outside China.  Hence they'll stop in the middle of a busy 5 lane road to take a photo or consult an app.  They've even been spotted defecating in public areas.

NZ, Aus, and other more distant destinations get the better educated and wealthy tourists.  Well, maybe not Aus so much from now on, huh?  Before anyone thinks I'm being racist, it's the Thai's who despise the type of Cn tourist we get here.

If I had the opportunity to do so, I would seriously consider living in Vietnam.  I love the people and their food and culture derived partly from French rule.  Hoi An would suit me.

VIETnamese are ethnic south-eastern coastal Chinese, just not HAN Chinese. They were driven south by Han Chinese. Their strength and success is from their Chinese roots. There are surely many badly behaved Chinese tourists, but you don't hear about the well-behaved ones do you. You might want to consider for example English package tourists that go to Spain vs those that go to France. The former are generally no better than Chinese, at least the Chinese don't get drunk and violent. The latter are like the middle-class Chinese tourists that behave well, appreciate local culture, and you don't hear about.

[KaptainRob]

50 minutes ago, Buttaxe said:

VIETnamese are ethnic south-eastern coastal Chinese, just not HAN Chinese. They were driven south by Han Chinese. Their strength and success is from their Chinese roots. There are surely many badly behaved Chinese tourists, but you don't hear about the well-behaved ones do you. You might want to consider for example English package tourists that go to Spain vs those that go to France. The former are generally no better than Chinese, at least the Chinese don't get drunk and violent. The latter are like the middle-class Chinese tourists that behave well, appreciate local culture, and you don't hear about.

English package tours to Spain probably upstaged by Aussies or football supporters.

Personally I have no problem with Chinese tourists of any caliber except in busy airports.  Whether its LHR, DBX. SYD or BKK, they're all LOUD and pushy.

I have many Chinese friends and acquaintance's, mainly ex Hong Kong, but more lately well educated younger folk from the Mainland who work in NZ or Aussie banks and other businesses I associate with.  They're intelligent and hard-working.  

[King Cotton]

1 hour ago, Buttaxe said:

VIETnamese are ethnic south-eastern coastal Chinese, just not HAN Chinese. They were driven south by Han Chinese. Their strength and success is from their Chinese roots. There are surely many badly behaved Chinese tourists, but you don't hear about the well-behaved ones do you. You might want to consider for example English package tourists that go to Spain vs those that go to France. The former are generally no better than Chinese, at least the Chinese don't get drunk and violent. The latter are like the middle-class Chinese tourists that behave well, appreciate local culture, and you don't hear about.

Some interesting comments, there. Too easy, sometimes, for cynical views to be taken.

 

Hello, Buttaxe and welcome to Thaiger Talk

Please feel free to tell us a bit about yourself in 'Introductions'. It's good to pick-up on those sometimes differing regional or geographical perspectives.

And check-out the Guidelines, too, when you get a free minute. They're there to help us all enjoy our time here.

Happy posting

King Cotton

[AlexPTY]

3 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

Thailand's stock exchange, the SET via Thai NVDR Co Ltd is Bangkok Bank's majority owner according to Wiki.  Do you have an alternate source of information?

I may take a blame for fake news here, switching to UnionPay doesn't really mean they sold out to Chinese

[Poolie]

Rapidly turning into TV this chat forum. Only to be expected.