News Forum - Thailand real estate market saturated with unsold properties, may breach 1 trillion baht

[Marc26]

26 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

I don't think my girl is particularly different to many others in Thailand.  She is savvy, hard working and by her own efforts, has largely over come a poor background to get where she is. In this, she mirrors my own journey from a Yorkshire village to what I made of myself.  In this respect, we overcome our differing racial background and have a mutual understanding that leads to mutual support.  I see this in many Thai/Farang relationships.  

I said that mostly jokingly 

But I do think a lot of us are a bit defensive because there are so many bad stereotypes 

 

We have a very similar background to your relationship 

 

Both grew up piss poor

I think it used to piss my wife off when I'd tell her I was just as poor as she was, so "poor me" stories don't work on me  5555

[Benroon]

17 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

My wife is the same when it comes to people

I think Thais are more cautious towards others than we are

So allows them to suss people out better than us

And again, like your wife

My wife knows what she knows when it comes to what she needs to know

Sometimes I get caught questioning her and I am almost always wrong 

I never question her unless I have seriously thought it through in triplicate and then checked again !! We also have an 18 year old daughter ready to pounce on me should her mother get one over on me !

I play golf and have had the same caddy for 3 years, in the first few months I questioned some of her decisions, she would smile politely and say up to you before I made a hash of something her original decision would have avoided - cue further knowing smile as she saunters off to the next hole smugly! Haven't questioned her now for 2 years - just accept they know - you'll live longer !

[Grant]

On 3/29/2022 at 4:23 PM, Soidog said:

Reducing prices to what the market will accept could be one way to get things moving. I’ve seen houses stand empty for 10 years or more because the owner wanted 18,000 baht a month rent and the highest offered was only 15,000. So rather than make 1.8m in rental over 10 years, they held out trying to get 2.16m and ended up getting nothing. Beyond words!!  I’ve seen plots of land stand idle for years and when I asked why, I was told the owner wants 5m and the most anyone offered was 3m. Well maybe the land is only worth 3m. Madness and no concept of the idea that something is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. 

You are exactly right!

They have no idea of property values!

They think if it was once worth a specific amount it should not sell under that price ever?

Worth ? And Actuality of price are different!

But they don’t understand the concept of it’s only what people are willing to pay !

Not what you think it’s worth!

Human’s always think something is worth more but reality steps in when no one makes an offer!

Is it part of saving face?

As it will never work for them while they continue to lose money!

[Noble_Design]

^^ So angry and emotional over other people losing their money. 

[Marc26]

53 minutes ago, Benroon said:

I never question her unless I have seriously thought it through in triplicate and then checked again !! We also have an 18 year old daughter ready to pounce on me should her mother get one over on me !

I play golf and have had the same caddy for 3 years, in the first few months I questioned some of her decisions, she would smile politely and say up to you before I made a hash of something her original decision would have avoided - cue further knowing smile as she saunters off to the next hole smugly! Haven't questioned her now for 2 years - just accept they know - you'll live longer !

Hey you survived a daughter from age 12-17

 

12-17yr old girls are the scariest people on earth!   

 

[Benroon]

Just now, Marc26 said:

Hey you survived a daughter from age 12-17

12-17yr old girls are the scariest people in earth!   

Tell me about it, living in a house amongst hormones that don't know whether they are coming or going keeps you on your toes ! Turned out well though 

[Rainmaker]

5 hours ago, Vigo said:

The determining factor everywhere will be the ability of the borrower to service debt. As lending interest rates increase, the number of borrowers who will be unable to service their existing or new debt will grow and more property will enter the market. All of the predictions on real estate bubbles made clear that they were dependent upon lending interest rates and whether or not there was a tightening of down payment requirements.  These interest rates are now starting to increase, and if the trend continues over the next 2-3 years, the real estate markets will cool down. Also the baby boomers defied expectations and held on to their homes because they were fit. they will start to age out in 5-10 years and the held back real estate from this population will enter the market.

Oh my. Are rectal probes and the implanting of nanochips part of the plan? 

Why? Rate of return on investments is finally increasing and is expected to increase over the next year. If anything options should be kept under 1 year to allow for taking advantage.  At the very worst, interest rates will flatten before they  reduce again and one can go multiyear at that time.

Please google the World Economic Forum and the Great Reset.  This is being slowly implemented and China is already using Digital currency and a social score for the people. 

[Normaljoe]

I try to avoid the "News" section because of the vastly divergent views. However, I read through this thread and cannot identify one poster who has "real world" experience in large scale real estate investing. That means anyone who has spent an adult lifetime analysing and investing/profiting from large scale real estate transactions. Sure it is easy to find anomaly's in certain transactions, but the market overall always determines overall success.

Please don't tire me with your "one off" stories of success. Thailand is the worst place (so far - and I have visited over 80 countries) to even contemplate residential investment or development (single house or condo). Thai people do not have a realistic view of market economies. They will set a price and wait until they get it. Which is 99% NEVER. For rental value seasoned landlords will realize that some money is better than no money. Condos 99% Never appreciate in value. NEVER. 

Thais are 99% of the buyers of used properties HATE used properties. They are mesmerized by buying new. And Thai Banks almost universally do not loan on used properties over 10 year old (and 5 years is really tough). Also those DREAMERS who think there Thai wife is "so connected" to the bank to buy foreclosures, DREAM ON. Those properties are 100% sold to insiders ie: Bangkok Rich.

And for those of you in this thread saying your thai GF/Wife is so smart in RE, they are not! Supply and demand is a constant moving target in Thailand. Your Wife/GF want to build an overpriced residence in there homeland - and some of you say 18 Years living who cares? If you had this attitude during your earning years you would be broke and homeless. So it is ok now for you to pontificate that "I will die in this house/condo so who cares" is a vacuous argument. It has nothing to do with real investment value.

My advice to an "not able to own the land" farang, is RENT. Your wife/GF want you to buy, DON'T. If they think or as some of you had said here YOU believe they are smarter than you, then be happy when you "invest your money"  because you are the fool that it departed. 

If you are so "hopelessly in love" that you do not care about economic investment principles, then Happy for you to enjoy the balance of your life and leave everything to your Thai wife/GF/Family. What a sad life you have lived that no one else (most likely including your kids) is important to you.

I speak from having established partnerships that invested in over $700M in development and separate from that a RE company that sold over $400M in properties. So come at me with all your BS. I have seen all your lies and blind stupor comments during my career. Invest in Thailand and buyer beware and ready to lose it all. (commercial real estate excepted).

Edited April 5, 2022 by Normaljoe

[Rainmaker]

On 4/1/2022 at 6:55 PM, Benroon said:

You've clearly got too much time on your hands - whilst there will possibly be a place for digital cash (until governments realise it cuts them out and regulate it out of existence) - do you seriously think your average joe is going to hand over their hard earnt physical notes for a digital wallet ? How are the 80%+ people in the world with no access to technology going to handle that ? 

Please read about the story about Thailand and China has already made a agreement to start testing the use of the Chinese digital yuan. And please. Read The World Economic Forum and the Great Reset. Research Black Rock Financial and the World Economic Forum. Look at black rock and how they are buying houses and property world wide. The great reset you will not own property. Google it. Plus google China and there digital currency and how the Chinese people are already using it and they have a social score and they will be penalized for anything that the Chinese government says is bad behavior 

[Poolie]

18 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

Please read about the story about Thailand and China has already made a agreement to start testing the use of the Chinese digital yuan. And please. Read The World Economic Forum and the Great Reset. Research Black Rock Financial and the World Economic Forum. Look at black rock and how they are buying houses and property world wide. The great reset you will not own property. Google it. Plus google China and there digital currency and how the Chinese people are already using it and they have a social score and they will be penalized for anything that the Chinese government says is bad behavior 

Please note that extremely, painfully, exclusively few people in China have a 'social score' Those who act badly on public transport, for instance, are banned for about two years. I'm talking about opening the emergency exits on airplanes, for instance.

[Benroon]

3 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

Please read about the story about Thailand and China has already made a agreement to start testing the use of the Chinese digital yuan. And please. Read The World Economic Forum and the Great Reset. Research Black Rock Financial and the World Economic Forum. Look at black rock and how they are buying houses and property world wide. The great reset you will not own property. Google it. Plus google China and there digital currency and how the Chinese people are already using it and they have a social score and they will be penalized for anything that the Chinese government says is bad behavior 

Yes because you will never read utter crap on Google will you - should I go to youtube as well ? 

So China, and for good reason as many countries don't like being tied to the dollar and would love to break that tie, are testing a digital currency, you think that will translate to places like the US and Germany etc ? If you do you're even further removed from reality than I gave you credit for.

Stay in China and you may get away with it to some extent but given the world requires dollars as payment you're not going to get far outside. Picture the scene you're in a New York steakhouse and when you get the bill you present your chinese digital yuan credit card 

[Benroon]

3 hours ago, Normaljoe said:

I try to avoid the "News" section because of the vastly divergent views. However, I read through this thread and cannot identify one poster who has "real world" experience in large scale real estate investing. That means anyone who has spent an adult lifetime analysing and investing/profiting from large scale real estate transactions. Sure it is easy to find anomaly's in certain transactions, but the market overall always determines overall success.

Please don't tire me with your "one off" stories of success. Thailand is the worst place (so far - and I have visited over 80 countries) to even contemplate residential investment or development (single house or condo). Thai people do not have a realistic view of market economies. They will set a price and wait until they get it. Which is 99% NEVER. For rental value seasoned landlords will realize that some money is better than no money. Condos 99% Never appreciate in value. NEVER. 

Thais are 99% of the buyers of used properties HATE used properties. They are mesmerized by buying new. And Thai Banks almost universally do not loan on used properties over 10 year old (and 5 years is really tough). Also those DREAMERS who think there Thai wife is "so connected" to the bank to buy foreclosures, DREAM ON. Those properties are 100% sold to insiders ie: Bangkok Rich.

And for those of you in this thread saying your thai GF/Wife is so smart in RE, they are not! Supply and demand is a constant moving target in Thailand. Your Wife/GF want to build an overpriced residence in there homeland - and some of you say 18 Years living who cares? If you had this attitude during your earning years you would be broke and homeless. So it is ok now for you to pontificate that "I will die in this house/condo so who cares" is a vacuous argument. It has nothing to do with real investment value.

My advice to an "not able to own the land" farang, is RENT. Your wife/GF want you to buy, DON'T. If they think or as some of you had said here YOU believe they are smarter than you, then be happy when you "invest your money"  because you are the fool that it departed. 

If you are so "hopelessly in love" that you do not care about economic investment principles, then Happy for you to enjoy the balance of your life and leave everything to your Thai wife/GF/Family. What a sad life you have lived that no one else (most likely including your kids) is important to you.

I speak from having established partnerships that invested in over $700M in development and separate from that a RE company that sold over $400M in properties. So come at me with all your BS. I have seen all your lies and blind stupor comments during my career. Invest in Thailand and buyer beware and ready to lose it all. (commercial real estate excepted).

annnnnnd breath .......

[Poolie]

5 minutes ago, Benroon said:

annnnnnd breath .......

I don't think he wants us to buy, what do you reckon?

[SkyDogJack]

9 hours ago, Benroon said:

No, each bank must have 'reserve requirements' so in the event of a run on the banks they must be in a position to pay out (perhaps not less developed countries) but for every digit you see on that piece of paper there will be a physical currency. It's all reflected in balance sheets and the banks must hold that money and submit proof of that every month, I think this was implemented following the collapse of Barings Bank). 

However your last line is what I'm saying - physical money will never be replaced in the next few lifetimes at least given that according to something I read from 2019, 50% of the worlds population have no access to a computer.

Benroon,

I'd add something about money, digital currency and real experience.  While the world will not stop using paper money in our lifetimes, locally, even nationally, it may be different.  Here in the USA, more and more, you see checkout lanes in stores that say, "credit only".  No cash taken.  Parking meters where the only way to legally park is with a credit card or a digital app using a smart phone.  I think this change will happen in different places, at different times and different speeds.

My personal experience where this did not feel good was in China in 2018.  After almost a month there, I was finishing up in Beijing and arranged to go see the Great Wall". After a day of hard walking the "Wall", I was starving and went to get dinner. The purpose built city for tourist (mostly Chinese) where I was staying has lots of places to eat, and all long queues. After standing in line for an hour, it was only when I went to be seated that I saw the sign, "only WePay Accepted".  I asked about using a credit card, nope.  How about cash? Nope.  I found out that it was virtually impossible to get food if I did not have "WePay" on my smartphone.  Actually, when I first arrived in China at the start of my trip, I looked into getting WePay.  I could not.  I had to have a Chinese bank account, which I could not obtain, even if I wanted to.

My point is, there will be places where digital, whether crypto or some other digital currency will be the only thing possible.  We just need to be ready, and informed.  I eventually, I was able to buy some beer and chips at the hotel bar for my food that evening.  Luckily, breakfast was included. 

Cheers!

Edited April 5, 2022 by SkyDogJack
Spelling

[King Cotton]

25 minutes ago, SkyDogJack said:

Benroon,

I'd add something about money, digital currency and real experience.  While the world will not stop using paper money in our lifetimes, locally, even nationally, it may be different.  Here in the USA, more and more, you see checkout lanes in stores that say, "credit only".  No cash taken.  Parking meters where the only way to legally park is with a credit card or a digital app using a smart phone.  I think this change will happen in different places, at different times and different speeds.

My personal experience where this did not feel good was in China in 2018.  After almost a month there, I was finishing up in Beijing and arranged to go see the Great Wall". After a day of hard walking the "Wall", I was starving and went to get dinner. The purpose built city for tourist (mostly Chinese) where I was staying has lots of places to eat, and all long queues. After standing in line for an hour, it was only when I went to be seated that I saw the sign, "only WePay Accepted".  I asked about using a credit card, nope.  How about cash? Nope.  I found out that it was virtually impossible to get food if I did not have "WePay" on my smartphone.  Actually, when I first arrived in China at the start of my trip, I looked into getting WePay.  I could not.  I had to have a Chinese bank account, which I could not obtain, even if I wanted to.

My point is, there will be places where digital, whether crypto or some other digital currency will be the only thing possible.  We just need to be ready, and informed.  I eventually, I was able to buy some beer and chips at the hotel bar for my food that evening.  Luckily, breakfast was included. 

Cheers!

What an excellent post, @SkyDogJack and all so relevant too in this rapidly 'advancing' world, though hardly so in that restaurant!!

I'm an English expat and, whilst admittedly getting too old to want to latch onto the smartphone that I was coaxed into buying by my Thai wife, was given a spellbinding demo of  this digital takeover, last week, whilst catching up on my kids, back home. I and my eldest son, Alex, had visited a bar and, once the beers were poured, Alex took his phone from his pocket, held it over a small gadget that the barman had slid in front of him and, with me a curious spectator, repocketed the phone.

"What've you just done there, Al?" I asked.

"Paid for the beer," he replied with a look of total bewilderment that I'd asked the question and with me then shaking my head in disbelief that digital stuff had advanced to that level . . . bloody amazing!

Yeah, whatever next? And, as your post suggests, we just need to be ready (and, hopefully in my case, informed) for 'whatever'!

 

[Poolie]

10 minutes ago, King Cotton said:

What an excellent post, @SkyDogJack and all so relevant too in this rapidly 'advancing' world, though hardly so in that restaurant!!

I'm an English expat and, whilst admittedly getting too old to want to latch onto the smartphone that I was coaxed into buying by my Thai wife, was given a spellbinding demo of  this digital takeover, last week, whilst catching up on my kids, back home. I and my eldest son, Alex, had visited a bar and, once the beers were poured, Alex took his phone from his pocket, held it over a small gadget that the barman had slid in front of him and, with me a curious spectator, repocketed the phone.

"What've you just done there, Al?" I asked.

"Paid for the beer," he replied with a look of total bewilderment that I'd asked the question and with me then shaking my head in disbelief that digital stuff had advanced to that level . . . bloody amazing!

Yeah, whatever next? And, as your post suggests, we just need to be ready (and, hopefully in my case, informed) for 'whatever'!

I really cant remember the last time I used cash to pay for anything. Honestly!

Probably 2020, at a guess. In Thailand.

[Marc26]

38 minutes ago, Poolie said:

I really cant remember the last time I used cash to pay for anything. Honestly!

Probably 2020, at a guess. In Thailand.

I get super pissed when people in front of me don't use the Tap and insert their card and PIN!!!   :)

 

Tap that shit!

[Marc26]

52 minutes ago, King Cotton said:

What an excellent post, @SkyDogJack and all so relevant too in this rapidly 'advancing' world, though hardly so in that restaurant!!

I'm an English expat and, whilst admittedly getting too old to want to latch onto the smartphone that I was coaxed into buying by my Thai wife, was given a spellbinding demo of  this digital takeover, last week, whilst catching up on my kids, back home. I and my eldest son, Alex, had visited a bar and, once the beers were poured, Alex took his phone from his pocket, held it over a small gadget that the barman had slid in front of him and, with me a curious spectator, repocketed the phone.

"What've you just done there, Al?" I asked.

"Paid for the beer," he replied with a look of total bewilderment that I'd asked the question and with me then shaking my head in disbelief that digital stuff had advanced to that level . . . bloody amazing!

Yeah, whatever next? And, as your post suggests, we just need to be ready (and, hopefully in my case, informed) for 'whatever'!

I leave my house many days with nothing in my pocket

Credit card is on my phone, just tap it to pay

And I can buzz myself into my apartment building on my phone......

[Poolie]

17 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

I get super pissed when people in front of me don't use the Tap and insert their card and PIN!!!   :)

Tap that shit!

I don't tap any sh**

I don't consume any, see? Just wave my phone a bit and away......

[TheDirtyDurian]

6 hours ago, Normaljoe said:

I try to avoid the "News" section because of the vastly divergent views. However, I read through this thread and cannot identify one poster who has "real world" experience in large scale real estate investing. That means anyone who has spent an adult lifetime analysing and investing/profiting from large scale real estate transactions. Sure it is easy to find anomaly's in certain transactions, but the market overall always determines overall success.

Please don't tire me with your "one off" stories of success. Thailand is the worst place (so far - and I have visited over 80 countries) to even contemplate residential investment or development (single house or condo). Thai people do not have a realistic view of market economies. They will set a price and wait until they get it. Which is 99% NEVER. For rental value seasoned landlords will realize that some money is better than no money. Condos 99% Never appreciate in value. NEVER. 

Thais are 99% of the buyers of used properties HATE used properties. They are mesmerized by buying new. And Thai Banks almost universally do not loan on used properties over 10 year old (and 5 years is really tough). Also those DREAMERS who think there Thai wife is "so connected" to the bank to buy foreclosures, DREAM ON. Those properties are 100% sold to insiders ie: Bangkok Rich.

And for those of you in this thread saying your thai GF/Wife is so smart in RE, they are not! Supply and demand is a constant moving target in Thailand. Your Wife/GF want to build an overpriced residence in there homeland - and some of you say 18 Years living who cares? If you had this attitude during your earning years you would be broke and homeless. So it is ok now for you to pontificate that "I will die in this house/condo so who cares" is a vacuous argument. It has nothing to do with real investment value.

My advice to an "not able to own the land" farang, is RENT. Your wife/GF want you to buy, DON'T. If they think or as some of you had said here YOU believe they are smarter than you, then be happy when you "invest your money"  because you are the fool that it departed. 

If you are so "hopelessly in love" that you do not care about economic investment principles, then Happy for you to enjoy the balance of your life and leave everything to your Thai wife/GF/Family. What a sad life you have lived that no one else (most likely including your kids) is important to you.

I speak from having established partnerships that invested in over $700M in development and separate from that a RE company that sold over $400M in properties. So come at me with all your BS. I have seen all your lies and blind stupor comments during my career. Invest in Thailand and buyer beware and ready to lose it all. (commercial real estate excepted).

You're wrong about the foreclosure thing. 

In our case, we were looking online at a lot of properties in the area we wanted to buy in, from Saudi Arabia where we were all living at the time. 

Through this my wife connected with the woman from the bank via LINE app. As things carried on she would send details of properties as they came up. 

When my wife was on a visit to Thailand she had already lined up a list of about 4 or 5 properties that we were interested in, and arranged to meet this woman from the bank in advance for a viewing etc 

At the time there was a government help to buy scheme whereby, after paying an initial deposit, the remainder had to be paid off in a fixed term, but interest free. In our case one year, although you could have had more years if you wanted. 

These were all foreclosed properties, and in our case we got about 25% off the original price. Through the contact my wife had with the woman at the bank there, she was informed when the auction was going to be and told to get her skates on and get everything done before that date. There was no big mystery or cloak and dagger stuff to any of this. 

Your suggestion that only rich people in Bangkok get the inside info may be true in some cases, to have money to buy cash you must be fairly rich anyway. But it's certainly not true all the time. And we're proof of that. 

Maybe you don't know as much about real estate in Thailand as you think you do. 

Through the Thai Government Savings Bank BTW. 

Cheers buddy.

 

[Marc26]

7 hours ago, Normaljoe said:

I try to avoid the "News" section because of the vastly divergent views. However, I read through this thread and cannot identify one poster who has "real world" experience in large scale real estate investing. That means anyone who has spent an adult lifetime analysing and investing/profiting from large scale real estate transactions. Sure it is easy to find anomaly's in certain transactions, but the market overall always determines overall success.

Please don't tire me with your "one off" stories of success. Thailand is the worst place (so far - and I have visited over 80 countries) to even contemplate residential investment or development (single house or condo). Thai people do not have a realistic view of market economies. They will set a price and wait until they get it. Which is 99% NEVER. For rental value seasoned landlords will realize that some money is better than no money. Condos 99% Never appreciate in value. NEVER. 

Thais are 99% of the buyers of used properties HATE used properties. They are mesmerized by buying new. And Thai Banks almost universally do not loan on used properties over 10 year old (and 5 years is really tough). Also those DREAMERS who think there Thai wife is "so connected" to the bank to buy foreclosures, DREAM ON. Those properties are 100% sold to insiders ie: Bangkok Rich.

And for those of you in this thread saying your thai GF/Wife is so smart in RE, they are not! Supply and demand is a constant moving target in Thailand. Your Wife/GF want to build an overpriced residence in there homeland - and some of you say 18 Years living who cares? If you had this attitude during your earning years you would be broke and homeless. So it is ok now for you to pontificate that "I will die in this house/condo so who cares" is a vacuous argument. It has nothing to do with real investment value.

My advice to an "not able to own the land" farang, is RENT. Your wife/GF want you to buy, DON'T. If they think or as some of you had said here YOU believe they are smarter than you, then be happy when you "invest your money"  because you are the fool that it departed. 

If you are so "hopelessly in love" that you do not care about economic investment principles, then Happy for you to enjoy the balance of your life and leave everything to your Thai wife/GF/Family. What a sad life you have lived that no one else (most likely including your kids) is important to you.

I speak from having established partnerships that invested in over $700M in development and separate from that a RE company that sold over $400M in properties. So come at me with all your BS. I have seen all your lies and blind stupor comments during my career. Invest in Thailand and buyer beware and ready to lose it all. (commercial real estate excepted).

You are, weirdly, really worked up over other people wanting to buy a condo or build a small house!

A) That's just weird

B) You should probably talk to someone about these issues......

 

 

As for buying/building a house in your wife's village to leave it to family

Does that not happen all over the world?

And where did people(except you) talk about real estate value in building a home in the village, most look at it as cost they aren't looking to turn over

 

I can't count how many families I know that own vacation/holiday/lake/ski homes that bought it for the family and never have any intention of selling it

So how is that any different?

 

 

 

PS.....I am not allowed to say bad words on here............

But..............what an ******

[Rainmaker]

7 hours ago, Poolie said:

Please note that extremely, painfully, exclusively few people in China have a 'social score' Those who act badly on public transport, for instance, are banned for about two years. I'm talking about opening the emergency exits on airplanes, for instance.

This is from Wikipedia on China social credit score google and please read.  And also please google Thailand and China digital currency and please read. This is how the Chinese government will punish. Quote 

According to the Chinese government's 2015 Plan for Implementation, the Social Credit System is due to be fully implemented by 2020. Once implemented the system will manage the rewards, or punishments, of citizens on the basis of their economic and personal behavior. Some types of punishments for poor social credit include: flight ban, exclusion from private schools, slow internet connection, exclusion from high prestige work, exclusion from hotels, and registration on a public blacklist. In contrast, some rewards for good social credit include discounts on energy bills, being able to rent bikes and hotels without payment of a deposit, better interest rates at banks, tax breaks, free use of Gyms, and Preference and Hospitals.^[75]

^{please everyone google. World Economic Forum and the Great Reset} 

[Rainmaker]

4 hours ago, Benroon said:

Yes because you will never read utter crap on Google will you - should I go to youtube as well ? 

So China, and for good reason as many countries don't like being tied to the dollar and would love to break that tie, are testing a digital currency, you think that will translate to places like the US and Germany etc ? If you do you're even further removed from reality than I gave you credit for.

Stay in China and you may get away with it to some extent but given the world requires dollars as payment you're not going to get far outside. Picture the scene you're in a New York steakhouse and when you get the bill you present your chinese digital yuan credit card 

Please. Search. Thailand and China digital currency 

please search. Crude oil bought and sold only in US dollars. But now China and Saudi Arabia are not going to use US dollars.  So. How many countries are holding US dollars. When China requires every country who wishes to do business with China to use their digital currency.  How many countries do business with China. Possible outcome is starting to change. And things are going to start happening very fast 

[JamesR]

14 hours ago, Benroon said:

No, each bank must have 'reserve requirements' so in the event of a run on the banks they must be in a position to pay out (perhaps not less developed countries) but for every digit you see on that piece of paper there will be a physical currency. It's all reflected in balance sheets and the banks must hold that money and submit proof of that every month, I think this was implemented following the collapse of Barings Bank). 

However your last line is what I'm saying - physical money will never be replaced in the next few lifetimes at least given that according to something I read from 2019, 50% of the worlds population have no access to a computer.

Those reserves are also numbers on a computer. 

[Rainmaker]

10 hours ago, King Cotton said:

What an excellent post, @SkyDogJack and all so relevant too in this rapidly 'advancing' world, though hardly so in that restaurant!!

I'm an English expat and, whilst admittedly getting too old to want to latch onto the smartphone that I was coaxed into buying by my Thai wife, was given a spellbinding demo of  this digital takeover, last week, whilst catching up on my kids, back home. I and my eldest son, Alex, had visited a bar and, once the beers were poured, Alex took his phone from his pocket, held it over a small gadget that the barman had slid in front of him and, with me a curious spectator, repocketed the phone.

"What've you just done there, Al?" I asked.

"Paid for the beer," he replied with a look of total bewilderment that I'd asked the question and with me then shaking my head in disbelief that digital stuff had advanced to that level . . . bloody amazing!

Yeah, whatever next? And, as your post suggests, we just need to be ready (and, hopefully in my case, informed) for 'whatever'!

Yes.  You are very correct that we need to be ready. The current financial system is controlled by the banks which are individual companies but the next system will be programmable and will be controlled by the government and not a bank. The United States is working to eliminate the dollar and initiate a digital dollar that will be issued by the federal reserve   There was two runs on the banks so far this year.  It was not mentioned a lot in the news media. But when the prime minister of Canada issued a state of emergency law which used to be called the emergency wars act. They went after peoples money who donated to the freedom convoy and when the word got out that people could not access their money it caused a lot of Canadians to go to the atm which in then caused the Canadian banks to stop operations for a few days. I had many Canadian friends and they told me that they were not able to access their money. Then you have the Russians who have been traveling and they couldn’t get money. A lot of Russians here in Thailand tried to get money from atm’s but couldn’t. In the beginning before the Russia banks started stopping operations the ruble started to lose its value so when they lost their value to a baht I am sure that Russian expat’s were trying to get their money before it loses any more value. I know I would have done the same.  So I am not trying to scare people or start conspiracy theories but I want all of us to have our eyes open and keep communicating. Stories about how the housing market is. That’s what caused the financial problems in 2008 with banks. And the covid pandemic has surely caused a lot of problems in the housing markets from renters not paying rent and then you are not allowed to evict. People not working and losing their home. Businesses closed and now available on the market for real estate sales. It’s all connected