Why cant I live in Thailand?

[Freeduhdumb]

That is just enough to survive, if you've got enough saved up to secure a place to live, either married with a house you've bought or built in her name, or you by your own condo, and you put the requisite 800,000 baht locked away in a Thai Bank account, then you're good to go. Otherwise, you don't really have enough. 

[Marc26]

35 minutes ago, Vigo said:

No the  position is not weak.  Quite the contrary, it is validated and the basis for immigration policy around the developed world. There isn't a country in the world that targets low income foreigners. The economic basis just does not support their presence. You disagree, which is fine. Please feel free to make your case the immigration departments  around the world because the experts of  varying political sentiment all disagree with you.

You refer to the profit generated for Thais from low cost purchases as a "contribution" to Thailand. A subsistence foreign retiree will be purchasing basic products. These products have low profit margins.  What exactly are the  profit margins such that they will generate the profits you refer to?  Have you costed out the profit contribution  from the financially marginal foreigner?  Cost out the food purchases and "services" . You make the  assumption that spending  at least twice the Thai minimum wage a month is financially important. You are deluded if you  believe that 800, or even 2000 baht a month in spending is beneficial.   Are you aware of the agricultural product subsidy programs in Thailand? The emphasis is on  providing affordable basic foods to the low income/low wealth population of Thailand. This is why there are are rice, palm oil pork, chicken and common vegetable/fruit subsidies. It also why there are so many funding projects for local  aquaculture.  The subsidies and financial support  are not offset by the product "profit margins". Most foreigners are unaware of the extent of government funding of basic foodstuffs in Thailand.  As bad as Thai government can be, the bureaucrats have ensured that there isn't widescale starvation as is seen in other countries. Energy supply and distribution and domestic water is also heavily subsidized. The low income foreigner benefits from that social policy.

Have you considered what targeted foreigners  invest in a month? Try hundreds of thousands of baht. The Thai government is looking for foreign retirees who will spend big money.  A few bottles of Leo beer and Mama noodles don't cut it.  My recent neighbor has 2 kids and works at one of the international firms with employees in thailand. He is a short term foreign transfer and is paid German salary and benefits. Once his wife arrived, he went to the company subsidized house with driver/handyman and maid. He had no problems or issues with Thai immigration and he described everyone as being "helpful" and considerate. That's quite the contrast to what some people encounter.  His was the profile that every country chases. 

Your position does not understand the difference between of contribution margin and net profit. Nor does it show that you understand the costs that attach to the delivery of general services. Energy is also subsidized in Thailand. The people who are  paying  closer to the real cost of energy consumption will be homeowners, and business operators. Who do you think pays for the upkeep and infrastructure of energy  distribution in Thailand. It is not low income people,whether they are Thai or  foreign.

Subsistence retirees may be wonderful people, loved by their families and friends alike. That's not the point. It's all about the value added that their presence brings. The low income retiree is welcome as a short term visitor, or even as a 2-3 month stay visitor, which is a reasonable and generous policy.

That seemed like a long winded way for anther post of "I know richer people that you do" ........ 5555

 

All you just typed really doesn't matter if you are the German neighbor or a guy that just makes the 40k/mo necessary

 

They both will qualify for extended stays

[Fanta]

3 hours ago, Vigo said:

The low income retiree is welcome as a short term visitor, or even as a 2-3 month stay visitor, which is a reasonable and generous policy.

Using your rationale anyone spending double or triple the minimim wage in Thailand, with no local income, is being subsidized by the government. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Fanta

[Grumpish]

6 hours ago, Faz said:

Yes it is, at best. Many receive less than that.

The UK state pension It is also index linked,  but you lose that link once you become an overseas resident. What is 10K a year going to worth in real terms in ten years time?  

[Wanderer]

4 hours ago, Pinetree said:

You are quite right, but the perhaps larger issue is the inbred arrogance and entitlement of very many westerners, who believe that they have a God given right to move where they like and almost do what they like, regardless. They do not seem to see that it is a privilege to be allowed to enter and live in a place like Thailand, not a right.  We see this arrogance and entitlement  displayed frequently on this and other forums as people whine and moan about the Thai immigration requirement, or cultural issues that they don't agree with,  or the fact that they can't buy alcohol between 2pm and 5 pm.  Its pathetic and they should pack up and go home, or better still, not come here in the beginning . 

To the OP, if you can't afford to come here and live, then you can't, that's what it is.  

Having lived and worked in London for years I would say that this arrogance is not confined to Westerners. 

[cockneyboy]

16 hours ago, Faz said:

I'd hazard at a guess because his combined pensions don't meet Thai Immigration financial requirements of 65,000 THB per month to retire in Thailand.

The UK (government) state pension is at best £800 every 4 weeks = £10,400 per annum.
At roughly £1 = 44 BHT that's 38,133 BHT per month.

You'd require a secondary pension of another £700 per month after tax to meet the 65,000 BHT requirement. (£1,500 per month = 66,000 BHT).

800,000 THB in a Thai bank is the other method.

is combination still allowed.

 

[BigHewer]

1 hour ago, cockneyboy said:

is combination still allowed.

As far as I know, yes. Anyone else more in the know?

 

[BigHewer]

9 hours ago, Marc26 said:

Looks like Denman isn't that much

Max/yr looks like $11,500usd

Netherlands doesn't seem that much either 

A lot of people in the US will get more in social security 

The average in US is $1650/mo, around $20k/yr

I know a Dutch guy in Osaka who retired here with his Japanese wife. His pension is pretty impressive. I have two private pensions on top of my Japanese state pension and he has just the one. I can’t remember the specifics but it was way higher than my Japanese pension.

[BigHewer]

9 hours ago, Marc26 said:

I would have gotten max SS if I stayed in the US but I will end up working more years in Canada

US you may at around 9k contribution for 2022

Canada is only 3500

So in the end, my combined will end up being around 2500

But I look at that as "free money" basically 

Totally agreed. I look at it as free money too. The real money is what you put away in private pensions and investments. 

Japan has a pension agreement with the UK, Australia and NZ and I have toyed with the idea of moving to one of the three before retirement to qualify. All three are better than Japan, but not by a lot. I would have to sell my house and leave the Japanese medical system, neither of which I want to do. 

I still plan to retire in Thailand. I’ll be using my private pensions to qualify.

 

[Faz]

2 hours ago, cockneyboy said:

is combination still allowed.

Yes, but not for the very first 1 year extension.

There is one possible route but it depends on just how much your monthly UK pension(s) amount to and what funds you have saved to deposit in a Thai bank account.

[Marc26]

2 hours ago, BigHewer said:

Totally agreed. I look at it as free money too. The real money is what you put away in private pensions and investments. 

Japan has a pension agreement with the UK, Australia and NZ and I have toyed with the idea of moving to one of the three before retirement to qualify. All three are better than Japan, but not by a lot. I would have to sell my house and leave the Japanese medical system, neither of which I want to do. 

I still plan to retire in Thailand. I’ll be using my private pensions to qualify.

So I've only been in Canada all these years on a Work Permit 

My wife had some minor health issues but may have excluded her from getting PR

Since I am categorized as Executive level I am allowed to stay on a WP indefinitely  most is 4 years max

 

So I wasn't aware that I am allows to have Canada's equivalent if 401k, called an RRSP

 

So I just found out that I have 275k that I can now contribute to the RRSP

Which is great because I can do it in a spousal account 

Which means I can reduce my tax significantly and then we can withdraw in her name at a much lower tax bracket 

 

It will reduce my tax bracket from 43% to low 30%

We then can withdraw in my wife's name at around 15%

[ace035]

12 hours ago, Pinetree said:

why can't you then? 

Come on man, he still has families to support with like any other retirees you see in Thailand. He'll be lucky enough that all of his pension to keep under his only name, not a joint with his wife on it.

[ace035]

22 hours ago, Faz said:

I'd hazard at a guess because his combined pensions don't meet Thai Immigration financial requirements of 65,000 THB per month to retire in Thailand.

The UK (government) state pension is at best £800 every 4 weeks = £10,400 per annum.
At roughly £1 = 44 BHT that's 38,133 BHT per month.

You'd require a secondary pension of another £700 per month after tax to meet the 65,000 BHT requirement. (£1,500 per month = 66,000 BHT).

800,000 THB in a Thai bank is the other method.

I agree with you with that amount but my situation right now especially in the late 40's, I need to have at least B800K in a Thai bank account along with an additional of at least B100K of my pension. I still have to work at least 10 more years to get that amount that I want not just keep on going in Thailand every single time.

[astro]

10 hours ago, Vigo said:

No the  position is not weak.  Quite the contrary, it is validated and the basis for immigration policy around the developed world. There isn't a country in the world that targets low income foreigners

The required 65k TBH is not a low income, certainly not in Thailand.

The visa holder would contribute quite well, specially out in the sticks, supporting an extended Thai family, creating employment (garden, household and more) and purchase goods & services.

[Pinetree]

5 hours ago, ace035 said:

Come on man, he still has families to support with like any other retirees you see in Thailand. He'll be lucky enough that all of his pension to keep under his only name, not a joint with his wife on it.

Thailand is not a charity for poor retirees from the west. 

[BigHewer]

8 hours ago, Marc26 said:

Which means I can reduce my tax significantly and then we can withdraw in her name at a much lower tax bracket 

It will reduce my tax bracket from 43% to low 30%

We then can withdraw in my wife's name at around 15%

You are speaking my language

My wife and I are in similar tax brackets, but any additional business income we generate goes in her name. 

In Japan,  middle income earners effectively pay no income tax for 10 years after buying a house. Our current house is in my name, but the next one will be in hers. 

Tax is a major consideration when planning for retirement in Thailand.

 

[ExpatPattaya]

18 hours ago, Pinetree said:

the perhaps larger issue is the inbred arrogance and entitlement of very many westerners, who believe that they have a ___given right to move where they like and almost do what they like, regardless.

True statement Pinetree.  My father used to call them "people who think their sh!t don't stink"

Doesn't add up how these financial wizards and big money foreigners are always complaining about keeping 800K in the bank for retirement.  

Always claiming they make big returns on the 800K so will not keep it in the bank, then pay a visa agent and tell everyone how much more money they made by investing etc...etc...   

Somehow they never have enough money and at the same time say they are "retired" here.

 

[Marc26]

22 minutes ago, ExpatPattaya said:

True statement Pinetree.  My father used to call them "people who think their sh!t don't stink"

Doesn't add up how these financial wizards and big money foreigners are always complaining about keeping 800K in the bank for retirement.  

Always claiming they make big returns on the 800K so will not keep it in the bank, then pay a visa agent and tell everyone how much more money they made by investing etc...etc...   

Somehow they never have enough money and at the same time say they are "retired" here.

I'm not concerned on losing out on investing that 800k

 

But with how awful Thai banks are when their is fraud in your account, I don't feel great in leaving 800k in a Thai Bank 

 

My stepson had 12k fraud from his account and it was an absurd nightmare to get it back

 

It seems Thai banks actually work against you getting your money back 

[LoongFred]

On 3/26/2022 at 9:29 AM, Faz said:

That still wouldn't meet the 65,000 BHT requirement without a secondary top up pension.

It

 

On 3/26/2022 at 9:29 AM, Faz said:

That still wouldn't meet the 65,000 BHT requirement without a secondary top up pension.

Yes but higher income workers get more. When I was working in the us I would hit the cap around October each year and saw 7% more pay.

 

On 3/26/2022 at 9:58 AM, Marc26 said:

 Nothing to really brag about

If you are getting more than the average you sort of got screwed, IMO

If you were able to invest that money yourself over 40 years

You'd get a lot more than 3k/mo, or the 2500 or so I will end up with 

I’m not bragging but stating a fact. I worked hard and made good money. Social security in the US is based on your contributions and wages. It’s about 7% but the employer also pays 7% (about). What I like because I used IDD (direct deposit), I can use it for my financial proof to  extend my visa. 

 Much of my other money is tied up in account that are pre tax. I try not tapping these funds because of taxes.

[LoongFred]

On 3/26/2022 at 9:54 AM, Faz said:

Hooray for you Fred and you never waste an opportunity to let other members know of your income.
The average US citizen though also requires an additional pension to SS to meet the requirements.

I've seen pensions from one or two Nordic Countries that put your pension to shame Fred, they just don't gloat about it.

You don't have to rely on any Pension income if you have the necessary funds at hand.

I actually have both, so no worry. Normally I’d try to pay an unexpected bill with my BoA card because there is no foreign transaction fee and I  can cover it from my US account, but I don’tbelieve I’ve dropped below 1M baht ever. That said I’m just ok, many retiree have a lot more.

[LoongFred]

13 hours ago, Marc26 said:

I'm not concerned on losing out on investing that 800k

But with how awful Thai banks are when their is fraud in your account, I don't feel great in leaving 800k in a Thai Bank 

My stepson had 12k fraud from his account and it was an absurd nightmare to get it back

It seems Thai banks actually work against you getting your money back 

 

1 minute ago, LoongFred said:

I actually have both, so no worry. Normally I’d try to pay an unexpected bill with my BoA card because there is no foreign transaction fee and I  can cover it from my US account, but I don’tbelieve I’ve dropped below 1M baht ever. That said I’m just ok, many retiree have a lot more.

 

13 hours ago, Marc26 said:

I'm not concerned on losing out on investing that 800k

But with how awful Thai banks are when their is fraud in your account, I don't feel great in leaving 800k in a Thai Bank 

My stepson had 12k fraud from his account and it was an absurd nightmare to get it back

It seems Thai banks actually work against you getting your money back 

Really, I’ve never had any problems and we had dealing with both Kasikorn and Bangkok bank.

[Marc26]

2 hours ago, LoongFred said:

It

Yes but higher income workers get more. When I was working in the us I would hit the cap around October each year and saw 7% more pay.

I’m not bragging but stating a fact. I worked hard and made good money. Social security in the US is based on your contributions and wages. It’s about 7% but the employer also pays 7% (about). What I like because I used IDD (direct deposit), I can use it for my financial proof to  extend my visa. 

 Much of my other money is tied up in account that are pre tax. I try not tapping these funds because of taxes.

Wasn't really accusing you of bragging 

More so that any of us that are getting more than the average aren't really getting a deal

 

Like I said above, I look at it as free money

 

I only worked about 9 years in the US(not counting when I was a teenager)

 

But I maxed our 7 of those years

Which will help bring up my combined payout US/Canada

Become Canada you max out at around 3500 so max payout is only around 1200

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, LoongFred said:

Really, I’ve never had any problems and we had dealing with both Kasikorn and Bangkok bank.

Have you ever had fraud in your accounts?

 

It's be a ridiculous process for my stepson 

And pretty much anyone I know who has had to try and get their money back from a Thai bank if there was fraud in their account 

[Thaidup]

On 3/26/2022 at 12:26 AM, Faz said:

I'd hazard at a guess because his combined pensions don't meet Thai Immigration financial requirements of 65,000 THB per month to retire in Thailand.

The UK (government) state pension is at best £800 every 4 weeks = £10,400 per annum.
At roughly £1 = 44 BHT that's 38,133 BHT per month.

You'd require a secondary pension of another £700 per month after tax to meet the 65,000 BHT requirement. (£1,500 per month = 66,000 BHT).

800,000 THB in a Thai bank is the other method.

This is one point I will constantly push, If a person is looking to come to Thailand without any financial security at home,Don't, Think about it. If you cant secure your retirement at home, what on earth makes you think you can do it in a different country? get yourself setup first, then look at easier/cheaper alternatives.

[Thaidup]

On 3/26/2022 at 5:09 PM, Wanderer said:

We see this arrogance and entitlement  displayed frequently on this and other forums as people whine and moan about the Thai immigration requirement, or cultural issues that they don't agree with,  or the fact that they can't buy alcohol between 2pm and 5 pm.

I think the arrogance comes from some westerners thinking that the Thai baht is as what it was back in 1990's. The Thai taxpayer has no duty of care to a retiree, that duty of care is your own once you leave your home country. So if the Thai government work out that you can not financially take care of yourself then they have a duty of burden to the taxpayer.

 

Don't misunderstand me, I acknowledge it is getting harder and harder, I joked with my wife some time ago," If Immigration keep this up, I will go home to Australia and drop you off at the office and say"you take care of her now, i have had enough" But it is what is. And the missus did not get the joke.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Thaidup