News Forum - Boeing aircraft carrying 133 passengers crashes in China, state media reports

[Cathat]

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

Yes, I know. Just pointing out that Boeings 737 in particular suffered a lot from this issue, in their earlier versions. And it wasn't an electric issue either, IIRC it was hydraulic fluid getting frozen due to poor design? something along these lines?

how  the elevator trim works is type dependent.

not all elevator trims are hydraulically controlled.

I had a trim runaway on a seneca years ago that was electric only.

think most if not all boeing trims will be electric sending a signal to a hydraulic actuator someplace is the system.

however this is all getting far away from the main topic.

 

 

[KaptainRob]

5 hours ago, bushav8r said:

If the video is actual footage of the crash, the aircraft  appears to be mostly intact.  It did look more like a lawn dart than a 737 though.

Implosion or explosion could tear a hole and disable controls without an immediate break-up.

This from:- https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/21/china-plane-crash-china-eastern-airlines-boeing-737-crashes-132-people-on-board.html

Quote

 

Flight MU5735 left Kunming at 1:11 p.m. local time (1:11 a.m. ET) and was due to arrive at Guangzhou in the southeast of the country in less than two hours, according to information on FlightRadar24.

 

The plane was cruising at 29,100 feet and began a sharp descent after 2:20 p.m., recovering more than 1,000 feet briefly then resuming the dive before it lost contact. It fell more than 25,000 feet in about two minutes.

“This kind of tragedy is extremely unusual,” Richard Aboulafia, a managing director at AeroDynamic Advisory, said of the plane’s sudden, sharp drop from its cruising altitude.

 

 

[KaptainRob]

One post removed - it was NOT a B737-8 MAX.

This was a 6 year old B737-800.

[Guest1]

6 hours ago, bushav8r said:

Gravity still works when the engines don't.

For a stone this way, yes. But even for a Delta-Jet, and more for a 737, there must be another reason for vertical flying into the ground

[Tim_Melb]

12 hours ago, Faraday said:

Here's a video of it from The Metro.

Absolutely terrifying.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/03/21/passenger-plane-with-133-people-on-board-crashes-in-china-16311981/

This is totally unsubstantiated footage that has be circulating online that was filmed from the m a tv screen somewhere and is quite possibly file footage from an unconnected incident. The credited source has not posted a video for over two months so if it is the correct source then it's fake news yet again. 

[Tim_Melb]

It will be interesting to see what the cause is given that this 737 800 is a closely related aircraft to the 737 Max 8 and has similar design imbalances as the Max 8 due to the much larger heavier engines it uses compared to earlier 737 models. We will have to wait and see. It will be well scrutinised no doubt given the Max 8 problems. 

[alex12345]

I recently watched that netflix downfall documentary about those two boeing crashes and the problems at boeing, and the 737 Max then I read airframe by Micheal crichton again, bear in mind it was written in the 70's just goes to show how timeless his writing is.  I won't spoil the ending but the pilot is chinese in that book as well and its about an unexplained air crash

A plane is a complex thing with millions of parts in it, thats for sure, I think this looks like a total engine failure the way it just fell out of the sky, but im not an investigator/

Lets wait and see how many black boxes they can recover.

Edited March 22, 2022 by alex12345

[Tim_Melb]

2 minutes ago, alex12345 said:

I recently watched that netflix downfall documentary about those two boeing crashes and the problems at boeing, and the 737 Max then I read airframe by Micheal crichton again, bear in mind it was written in the 70's just goes to show how timeless his writing is.  I won't spoil the ending but the pilot is chinese in that book as well.

A plane is a complex thing with millions of parts in it, thats for sure, I think this looks like a total engine failure the way it just fell out of the sky, but im not an investigator/

Lets wait and see how many black boxes they can recover.

It is interesting but please do not accept that footage as being of this incident, there are serious doubts of its origin. Wait for something that is substantiated. 

[Faraday]

22 minutes ago, Tim_Melb said:

This is totally unsubstantiated footage that has be circulating online that was filmed from the m a tv screen somewhere and is quite possibly file footage from an unconnected incident. The credited source has not posted a video for over two months so if it is the correct source then it's fake news yet again. 

Are you sure about that, Tim?

Its reported worldwide.

This report is from The SCMP:

https://www.scmp.com/video/china/3171307/boeing-737-plane-crashes-chinas-southern-guangxi-132-people-board

[stuhan]

For a plane to perfectly nose dive like that in the video i think it need to be under pilot control. So i am a little suspect of the video.

[Cathat]

The footage although unsubstantiated at this point has been very closely looked at by a fair few techy types on several aviation forums and many think it may well be genuine.

[Tim_Melb]

2 minutes ago, Faraday said:

Are you sure about that, Tim?

Its reported worldwide.

This report is from The SCMP:

https://www.scmp.com/video/china/3171307/boeing-737-plane-crashes-chinas-southern-guangxi-132-people-board

A quote from the article you linked "Video has emerged on social media purportedly showing wreckage from the plane." it's obvious from that statement they have doubts too. The article posted in this forum credits a YouTube channel that posts viral videos as the source and they have not posted a video in over two months. Just because the news feed decides to run with footage that was published by someone else does not make it true or accurate. We have already seen so many fake stories run on the Ukraine conflict recently to automatically believe footage from a dodgy source. 

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, KaptainRob said:

One post removed - it was NOT a B737-8 MAX.

This was a 6 year old B737-800.

How big is the differences from the ng model to the max model in the design? I am asking because I read about engineers and pilots who said about the max model the design ist the problem thats why they needed the software to stabalize the plane.

[Stardust]

34 minutes ago, alex12345 said:

I recently watched that netflix downfall documentary about those two boeing crashes and the problems at boeing, and the 737 Max then I read airframe by Micheal crichton again, bear in mind it was written in the 70's just goes to show how timeless his writing is.  I won't spoil the ending but the pilot is chinese in that book as well and its about an unexplained air crash

A plane is a complex thing with millions of parts in it, thats for sure, I think this looks like a total engine failure the way it just fell out of the sky, but im not an investigator/

Lets wait and see how many black boxes they can recover.

But even the engines fails why it went vertical down. As a plane has wings even both engines fails it not goes down vertical. I am guessing it is a software failure they need to stabalize the plane. But for sure it is my guessing.

[KaptainRob]

The long strip of fuselage which landed well clear of the impact crater appears to be from the left hand side of the aircraft, immediately adjacent the left engine.  Possible cause, an uncontained engine failure wherein the compressor lades explode out of the cowlings and rupture the fuselage?

       

Not sure why the debris photos indicate the lettering is black whereas this file photo shows the aircraft having red letters.  Note the bottom of the last 2 characters the curls and upside down T.

[Guest1]

ChinaAvreview has on Twitter actual footage, now:

https://twitter.com/chinaavreview

 

[Stardust]

No survivors found:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/china-eastern-airlines-plane-crash-mu5735-search-continues-no-survivors-found-2578576

 

[Pinetree]

13 hours ago, Guest1 said:

That looks more like flown straight into the ground, or not? Even with no jet power, how can a plane fell down like this in, how it looks like, one peace?

Aerodynamically, it really can't.  I suspect this is fake, but I will wait to see. 

[Tim_Melb]

6 hours ago, Faraday said:

Are you sure about that, Tim?

Its reported worldwide.

This report is from The SCMP:

https://www.scmp.com/video/china/3171307/boeing-737-plane-crashes-chinas-southern-guangxi-132-people-board

It appears that the footage is genuine but incredibly misleading as the angle makes it appear that the plane went straight down vertically there has new been published dash cam footage of the incident that shows the aircraft coming down at an angle of somewhere between 45° and 60° still a frightening crash but not the shock of ng straight down shown in the first video. 

[KaptainRob]

37 minutes ago, Tim_Melb said:

It appears that the footage is genuine but incredibly misleading as the angle makes it appear that the plane went straight down vertically there has new been published dash cam footage of the incident that shows the aircraft coming down at an angle of somewhere between 45° and 60° still a frightening crash but not the shock of ng straight down shown in the first video. 

There are at least 2 videos, one (side on the course) shows the ~35deg angle, which is consistent with the speed and altitude as the aircraft did not quite fall like a stone.  The other video was likely taken from behind the course travelled, and therefore looks as if the plane drops vertically.

[Faraday]

This makes it even more terrifying, must have been horrendous.

"Data captured by Flightradar24 showed the plane cruising at 8,900 metres (29,200 feet) at around 2.20pm local time when it suddenly began descending. After regaining some altitude briefly at around 2,000 metres, the plane then continued to dive, descending at almost 9,450 metres per minute in the last few seconds before it crashed."

Picture of crash site.

(apologies, the image hasn't loaded completly & you'll need to click on it)

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/3171336/china-eastern-airlines-flight-mu5735-air-safety-experts-study-video-and?module=lead_hero_story&pgtype=homepage

[Pinetree]

22 hours ago, CamPat said:

No surprise there. Boeing is and will still be for some time a company that i wouldn't trust for a second. More concentrated on the Stock Exchange than Safety and Engineering. Poor Chinese faced the same fate as their previous victims crashing with a 737 max 8.

I have over 8,000 hours on Boeings and they are (were?) the most comfortable aircraft to fly, easy, responsive and reliable.  My view is that in trying to keep up, never mind pass, in the technology game with Airbus  it has exposed  their profound flaws.  I would not fly in the B737 MAX and I fear for the new generation of B777s, an aircraft I know well. 

[CamPat]

18 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

I have over 8,000 hours on Boeings and they are (were?) the most comfortable aircraft to fly, easy, responsive and reliable.  My view is that in trying to keep up, never mind pass, in the technology game with Airbus  it has exposed  their profound flaws.  I would not fly in the B737 MAX and I fear for the new generation of B777s, an aircraft I know well. 

Thanks pinetree. I heard similar claims from other pilots before. The B737 max 8 had serious design flaws and is a result of costsavings in order not to design a completely new aircraft to compete with Airbus A 320 series. Dominc Gates of the Seattle Times kept a good hold on the History of this Aircraft and Boeings move from Seattle to Chicago which laid the path from a super efficient Ingeneering Company to a Sharholder Value driven Stock Exchange obsessed thing. Whistleblowers where either fired or silenced.

[oldschooler]

22 hours ago, CamPat said:

No surprise there. Boeing is and will still be for some time a company that i wouldn't trust for a second. More concentrated on the Stock Exchange than Safety and Engineering. Poor Chinese faced the same fate as their previous victims crashing with a 737 max 8.

Nobody cares about your “ trust” . All that matters is aircraft model & airline safety records. extremely high proportion of aircraft accidents are human error. so basically flying with air crapola is significantly less safe than flying with air 1stworld.

[oldschooler]

9 hours ago, alex12345 said:

I recently watched that netflix downfall documentary about those two boeing crashes and the problems at boeing, and the 737 Max then I read airframe by Micheal crichton again, bear in mind it was written in the 70's just goes to show how timeless his writing is.  I won't spoil the ending but the pilot is chinese in that book as well and its about an unexplained air crash

A plane is a complex thing with millions of parts in it, thats for sure, I think this looks like a total engine failure the way it just fell out of the sky, but im not an investigator/

Lets wait and see how many black boxes they can recover.

A “total engine failure” might be bird strike of improper Maintenance but pilot should recover to a glide mode….human error for sure 99% then ….