News Forum - UKRAINE UPDATES

[Rookiescot]

50 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

so I don’t need to watch pure Facebook propaganda. This is the normal behavior of a free person.

The main thing is that both sides are engaged in blocking and restrictions, but you blame only one side.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/mar/11/youtube-blocks-russian-state-funded-media

A free person is surely able to say that the Ukraine has been invaded by Russia and a war is now ongoing.

Can you say that? Please just type the words "Russia has invaded the Ukraine and a war now exists between these two countries".

[Rookiescot]

9 hours ago, Poolie said:

All media is biased. Without exception.

 Poolie. For once we are in agreement. They all have an agenda.

However when you start seeing publications as diverse as the Daily Mail and the Mirror actually making the same points then you have to think "Wait a second. If both these rags are saying the same thing then its gotta be true". 

[Smithydog]

14 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

so I don’t need to watch pure Facebook propaganda. This is the normal behavior of a free person.

The main thing is that both sides are engaged in blocking and restrictions, but you blame only one side.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/mar/11/youtube-blocks-russian-state-funded-media

Agree, both sides are blocking. As stated in the article:

 

“Russia on Friday moved to block Instagram after its parent company, Meta, said it would allow calls for violence against Vladimir Putin and Russian soldiers involved in the invasion of Ukraine to appear on the social media platform in Ukraine. The Russian government blocked access to Facebook last week. The blocks further limit most Russians’ access to outside information on the war.”

The question is why would the Russian Government do that if, as they say, people won't allow any different narrative to be heard?  It simply just blocks more avenues for themselves to share their narrative.

We have all seen the power of social media in the Pandemic and its speed and ability to spread disinformation. I would have thought it would have been a prime opportunity for them to use to counter such, if that is what they believe.

But now it seems it is up to their UN Ambassador to get their narrative across. After all he is doing so well in doing this with his confused, disjointed ravings that have more association in my opinion to a rambling excuse from a 10 year old to a teacher why I didn't do my homework rather than that of a country's diplomat!

Not allowing the Russian people to see it means they won't hear the actual sad truth of how many of their own they are loosing. They won't hear of the indiscriminate attacks on civilians that seems to be sadly more of the story developing. But then of course, based on Putin's latest speech, those Russian people would be traitors. Just highlights how little of any other narrative Russia themselves are prepared to discuss. 

But at least Putin won't hear about the threats to his own safety. It looks more and more likely the Russian Presidents personal fears and strikes on his ego will be his ultimate downfall, like so many of his ilk in he past. 

But how many innocent people have to die before that happens?

 

[Stardust]

14 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

funny. but it describes the causes of all wars on the planet.

You mean the cause and name of the war Putin.

You not even understand you lost already

Nobody around believe anything of Putins and your fake news.

A liar is a liar there is no doubt anymore and all is debunked!

[Marble-eye]

35 minutes ago, Stardust said:

You mean the cause and name of the war Putin.

You not even understand you lost already

Nobody around believe anything of Putins and your fake news.

A liar is a liar there is no doubt anymore and all is debunked!

The biggest problem is that the citizens of Russia have been totally brainwashed into believing that they are actually liberating Ukraine.

This is a telephone poll taken in Russia and it's totally astonishing what they actually believe. I suppose it's the old adage that if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth.

 

Survation | War in Ukraine, the view from Russia | Survation

Edited March 18, 2022 by Faz
Link to image added.

[Stardust]

17 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Had a quick scan of it but really cant see the bit where invading the Ukraine is mentioned.

This must be a russian translation! You have to read the original source in German as he wrote it in German and there it is written he is against Zcar imperalists like Putin

Funny if people talking about Marx but cannot read it and doesn't know anything about it. Surly the russian and chinese translations have nothing to do with Karl Marx and the original!

By the way all what he write was from his time and actual situation and also very clear against the Zcar , Russians and their behaviour against neigbouring countries including nowaday Ukraine because already there they bullied them!

Oh they forgot that part in the translations

[Stardust]

17 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Had a quick scan of it but really cant see the bit where invading the Ukraine is mentioned.

Oh sorry Rookiescot my former qoute was to mr Marx, it was by accident at you

[oldschooler]

On 3/16/2022 at 10:47 PM, KRLMRX said:

you are wrong, and that's okay.

almost all top media are biased, they broadcast the opinion of big business and its talking puppets in governments.

there is no difference between the NYT and the Independent, between the Republican and Labor parties. They can participate in a play called "political struggle" as long as you let them.

Not when they directly broadcast expert opinions from former NATO General Officers, Western Intelligence & Western Defence Institutes. They are source specialists. independent of each other, corroborate strongly each other and are without doubt the absolute experts on military matters. ALL have detailed factually why this Russian Invasion has so far failed nearly absolutely in every way.

Forget the middle - men ; Politicians,Journalists, Newspapers & Reporters in helmets & flak jackets ….

Forget also what any Russian Putin -lover says , all completely discredited Liars, who also aren’t competent at any level to fight a modern war against a western- supported/ trained / organized military like Ukraine (since 2014).

[oldschooler]

On 3/16/2022 at 11:16 PM, KRLMRX said:

believe him, so far, everything he wrote turned out to be true.

Marx analysis of Capitalism & Religion at the time was excellent. However his forced terror- based “ solution” was intended for advanced industrial nations like Germany and was always Absurd, Inhumane & Unworkable. And doubly so with Agricultural Russia.
 

He surely knew the real solution was Reform to Liberal Capitalism  but blinded by extreme hatred and envy of Capitalism, that wasn’t something he wanted to promote or could control. 

[oldschooler]

On 3/16/2022 at 10:56 PM, KRLMRX said:

the independence and pluralism of the Euro-Atlantic media is an illusion.

In Europe and the USA, as well as in Russia, in the top near-state media you will not see an alternative opinion about the events in Ukraine, only the position of the governments: Russia is evil or the West is evil.

The level of fascism all over the world is growing catastrophically and this is unlikely to end well.

 There is no credible “alternative view” in the western accountable world.

any such published article would be rightly deemed propaganda and pulled apart with indisputable facts , point by point.

there ARE journalists & historians like Peter Hitchens who do argue that Russia was “provoked” and its “warnings” ignored. there are no such contrarians in Russia , outside of Prisons.

the largest and most dangerous “ fascists” in the world right now are clearly the evil oppressive terrorist govts. of Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Syria.

[Stardust]

8 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Marx analysis of Capitalism & Religion at the time was excellent. However his forced terror- based “ solution” was intended for advanced industrial nations like Germany and was always Absurd, Inhumane & Unworkable. And doubly so with Agricultural Russia.
 

He surely knew the real solution was Reform to Liberal Capitalism  but blinded by extreme hatred and envy of Capitalism, that wasn’t something he wanted to promote or could control. 

And not forget Russia and China make their own translatiin from Marx. And one final point is that his writings was about his time and the actual situation of his time. 

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, Stardust said:

And not forget Russia and China make their own translatiin from Marx. And one final point is that his writings was about his time and the actual situation of his time. 

Many schools of Marxism. I refer to Marx original text which as I said was a fair analysis of raw capitalism when written. Marx conclusions however were all wrong; failing to see  innovation & democracy empowering ordinary people and that capitalism & technology & religion then were immovable & unchanging without violent overthrow & compulsion of new unnatural system.

[oldschooler]

On 3/17/2022 at 8:37 PM, Rookiescot said:

 Poolie. For once we are in agreement. They all have an agenda.

However when you start seeing publications as diverse as the Daily Mail and the Mirror actually making the same points then you have to think "Wait a second. If both these rags are saying the same thing then its gotta be true". 

Not the newspapers but the expert sources who write articles directly therein.

[Stardust]

29 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Many schools of Marxism. I refer to Marx original text which as I said was a fair analysis of raw capitalism when written. Marx conclusions however were all wrong; failing to see  innovation & democracy empowering ordinary people and that capitalism & technology & religion then were immovable & unchanging without violent overthrow & compulsion of new unnatural system.

Sure it was written in his time and he couldn't know about developments of democracies, regulations or the history of this so called comunist countries. I guess he wouldn't write the same nowadays. Would be interesting what he would say about this dictatorship countries like Xi ccp China and North Korea or Putin/ former soviet union. 

[butterfly]

On 3/16/2022 at 11:56 AM, KRLMRX said:

the independence and pluralism of the Euro-Atlantic media is an illusion.

In Europe and the USA, as well as in Russia, in the top near-state media you will not see an alternative opinion about the events in Ukraine, only the position of the governments: Russia is evil or the West is evil.

The level of fascism all over the world is growing catastrophically and this is unlikely to end well.

amen to that,

a lot of sociologists believe that authoritanism is the natural course of sophisticated and rich society, and that all democracies will eventually lead to authoritanism or fascism

looks like we are going that way if we keep forgetting history and not listening to dissident voices

it started with people questioning wars and the motives for war, then COVID and the need for lockdowns, next opposing sanctions and supporting our European bothers as collateral victims will be seen as heresy and a jail offence

oh wait, we are almost there already 

Edited March 18, 2022 by butterfly

[EdwardV]

Seems the Russians have been forced to resort to using civilian trucks to support the army. Since day one, trucks have been the number one target of Ukrainian troops: 

 

A shortage of trucks, growing ever more severe as the Ukrainians knock out more and more of the vehicles, was evident in the first 10 days of the invasion as Russia began transporting civilian vehicles into the war zone, probably in an effort to make good losses of military trucks. Now those civilian trucks are beginning to appear near the front lines, where they are big, slow targets for Ukrainian troops—and potential liabilities for battalions’ motor pools. The Russian army never was meant for operations very far from Russia’s land borders. Ukraine shares a border with Russia, of course, but Ukraine is a big country. Russian troops have penetrated no deeper than 50 or 60 miles into Ukraine while aiming for Kyiv in the north and Mykolaiv in the south, but even that is too far for the Kremlin’s fragile logistical system ... It’s a self-defeating act of desperation by an army that, even if it isn’t actually losing the war, at least no longer is winning it.

The Russian Army is Running Out Of Trucks For its War In Ukraine (msn.com)

"You will not find it difficult to prove that battles, campaigns, and even wars have been won or lost primarily because of logistics." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

 

[Stardust]

4 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Seems the Russians have been forced to resort to using civilian trucks to support the army. Since day one, trucks have been the number one target of Ukrainian troops: 

A shortage of trucks, growing ever more severe as the Ukrainians knock out more and more of the vehicles, was evident in the first 10 days of the invasion as Russia began transporting civilian vehicles into the war zone, probably in an effort to make good losses of military trucks. Now those civilian trucks are beginning to appear near the front lines, where they are big, slow targets for Ukrainian troops—and potential liabilities for battalions’ motor pools. The Russian army never was meant for operations very far from Russia’s land borders. Ukraine shares a border with Russia, of course, but Ukraine is a big country. Russian troops have penetrated no deeper than 50 or 60 miles into Ukraine while aiming for Kyiv in the north and Mykolaiv in the south, but even that is too far for the Kremlin’s fragile logistical system ... It’s a self-defeating act of desperation by an army that, even if it isn’t actually losing the war, at least no longer is winning it.

The Russian Army is Running Out Of Trucks For its War In Ukraine (msn.com)

"You will not find it difficult to prove that battles, campaigns, and even wars have been won or lost primarily because of logistics." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Exactly, professionals talk about logistics and the moral of the troops.

[vlad]

Mariupol Theartre clearly marked as a shelter with children inside. Military target no. Putins excuse they never attacked it. You and your generals that are left alive will face a war crimes tribuneral. Russia cannot defeat the Ukranian people let alone take on the west.

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, Stardust said:

Sure it was written in his time and he couldn't know about developments of democracies, regulations or the history of this so called comunist countries. I guess he wouldn't write the same nowadays. Would be interesting what he would say about this dictatorship countries like Xi ccp China and North Korea or Putin/ former soviet union. 

Having seen the universally catastrophic outcome of Communism that HE was indirectly responsible for, I  believe he would have rewritten his Manifesto   ….then killed himself from Remorse, Shame & Guilt!

BUT not even the brightest visionaries of his time and after were more than 5% correct about the future, including HG Wells …..not even AI being proposed to predict the Future, more variables than atoms in the Universe, like moves in the strategy game Go…

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, butterfly said:

amen to that,

a lot of sociologists believe that authoritanism is the natural course of sophisticated and rich society, and that all democracies will eventually lead to authoritanism or fascism

looks like we are going that way if we keep forgetting history and not listening to dissident voices

it started with people questioning wars and the motives for war, then COVID and the need for lockdowns, next opposing sanctions and supporting our European bothers as collateral victims will be seen as heresy and a jail offence

oh wait, we are almost there already 

Sanctions & Condemnation of Putin are Clearly Correct.

However, actually Agree with you that Authoritarianism is the natural if nasty human way to govern advanced societies as clearly proven overall by history.

Democracy has flourished only in a few western countries and needed to be imposed by same in East Asia after WW2. Democracy the “ least worst” system of govt, ; unnatural, difficult & complex to operate, even in mature democracies like UK. But worth the effort for resultant freedom & rights & institutions & culture. 

[KRLMRX]

15 hours ago, Smithydog said:

Agree, both sides are blocking. As stated in the article:

“Russia on Friday moved to block Instagram after its parent company, Meta, said it would allow calls for violence against Vladimir Putin and Russian soldiers involved in the invasion of Ukraine to appear on the social media platform in Ukraine. The Russian government blocked access to Facebook last week. The blocks further limit most Russians’ access to outside information on the war.”

The question is why would the Russian Government do that if, as they say, people won't allow any different narrative to be heard?  It simply just blocks more avenues for themselves to share their narrative.

We have all seen the power of social media in the Pandemic and its speed and ability to spread disinformation. I would have thought it would have been a prime opportunity for them to use to counter such, if that is what they believe.

But now it seems it is up to their UN Ambassador to get their narrative across. After all he is doing so well in doing this with his confused, disjointed ravings that have more association in my opinion to a rambling excuse from a 10 year old to a teacher why I didn't do my homework rather than that of a country's diplomat!

Not allowing the Russian people to see it means they won't hear the actual sad truth of how many of their own they are loosing. They won't hear of the indiscriminate attacks on civilians that seems to be sadly more of the story developing. But then of course, based on Putin's latest speech, those Russian people would be traitors. Just highlights how little of any other narrative Russia themselves are prepared to discuss. 

But at least Putin won't hear about the threats to his own safety. It looks more and more likely the Russian Presidents personal fears and strikes on his ego will be his ultimate downfall, like so many of his ilk in he past. 

But how many innocent people have to die before that happens?

I have only one question: why are you, the free people of the civilized world, being blocked from an alternative point of view?

not for the same reasons?

[KRLMRX]

On 3/17/2022 at 11:15 AM, Marble-eye said:

There is a subtle difference though, the Russian media has to print or say what Putin tells them to, whereas the Western media's can print or say what they see fit without fear or being locked up for 10 - 20 years.

no difference. Western media publish what they see fit, not facts and different points of view. that is, opinions based on upbringing and the atmosphere in society, which are formed, among other things, on the basis of publications in the media. Vicious circle.

[KRLMRX]

15 hours ago, Stardust said:

You mean the cause and name of the war Putin.

You not even understand you lost already

Nobody around believe anything of Putins and your fake news.

A liar is a liar there is no doubt anymore and all is debunked!

then it turns out that Putin forced the United States to invade half the countries of the world. Bad Putin.

[vlad]

KRLMRX why have Russian missiles been landing on Hospitals, apartment blocks, killing woman and Children and Targeting a Theatre ?? please explain this and are they legitimate targets ?? This is a simple question that needs a simple answer.

[KRLMRX]

16 hours ago, Stardust said:

This must be a russian translation! You have to read the original source in German as he wrote it in German and there it is written he is against Zcar imperalists like Putin

Funny if people talking about Marx but cannot read it and doesn't know anything about it. Surly the russian and chinese translations have nothing to do with Karl Marx and the original!

By the way all what he write was from his time and actual situation and also very clear against the Zcar , Russians and their behaviour against neigbouring countries including nowaday Ukraine because already there they bullied them!

Oh they forgot that part in the translations

it's a lie.

All this is in the Russian version.

Marx was born and brought up immediately after the victory over Napoleon, when Russia was the "gendarme of Europe", when "not a single gun in Europe could fire without the permission of the Russian Tsar." In the middle of the 19th century, the Russian Empire actively suppressed revolutionary processes throughout Europe. It is logical that Marx paid great attention to this.

In the last years of his life, after the reforms and development of industry in Russia, he began to study Russian, had a library of books in Russian.

And most importantly, you will be surprised, but Marx is also a man and he could make mistakes, he was not a saint, he was simply the first.