News Forum - UKRAINE UPDATES

[Fester]

34 minutes ago, dj230 said:

US just allowed NATO allies to send fighter jets to Ukraine, sounds like this is escalating vs de-escalating. 

Wonder what Russia will do in response. 

link please??????

 

[Fester]

21 minutes ago, Manu said:

Oh dear oh dear...

It seems people forgot that Putin has been in power for over 20 years now and a lot has happened since then. For a start, he has imposed austerity on his people all these years for the purpose of being self-sufficient in resources... so they can be prepared of the eventuality of a war. Russia has all it needs to survive war time for quite a while now, quite the opposite of the European Union (which by the way is not at war, Ukraine is), dependant for a start on gas coming...from Russia. Germany alone, the strongest European economy, would see its economy literally collapse if Russia cuts off the gas pipelines (the Nord Stream 2 pipeline episode a few days ago is also another joke announcement, by the way project that Ukraine was not very happy about in the first place but who cared about Ukraine then https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-to-stop-nord-stream-2/). Russia is prepared but it will take years for the EU to change its infrastructures to be independent of the Russian gas (and other ressources). They have never had any strategy of its kinds cause the EU is a complete joke and the only one laughing now is Putin. Meanwhile, Russia is getting ahead by securing 117 billion dollars revenues from its gas by selling to...China of course (https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-russia-china-agree-30-year-gas-deal-using-new-pipeline-source-2022-02-04/ ). Of course, that is no coincidence it happened just before the war got started.

The US controlled NATO... By allowing eastern European countries to join, what was to be expected? Exactly what has been happening, first Georgia (who's former president is currently on hunger strike in jail - that's what is waiting for the Ukrainian president  I guess unless he manages to escape before, no doubt he will https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/21/georgias-jailed-ex-leader-starts-hunger-strike-over-medical-car ), and then Crimea and now Ukraine. Stopping NATO (therefore the US) advance on Russia seemed to be the logical move, any other "powerful" country would have done the same, never mind a psychopat dictator. For these Eastern European countries joining NATO, it was win-win-win for them. They get protection (well the US protection, that's what they thought anyway, how wrong they were) and loads of financial aids, a lot of it that went directly in the pockets of corrupt politicians and elites of those countries. And now the US made it clear as Biden reminded everyone, they will not send a single soldier there. Why would they anyway? It would be no economical nor any other gain for them, there is no other war than economical wars, people who think that the US would go to war in order to defend "democracy" are fools. Unfortunately European countries failed to understand that. Not to mention that it would lead certainly to some kind of nuclear power move with the obvious consequences. So instead, NATO "allies" in Europe do their best to "do something", meaning another shameful joke. France sent some troops in Romania as well as its aircraft carrier. Another useless desperate move... Meanwhile the French president urges businesses not to leave Russia (https://todayworldnews.in/russia/france-urges-its-businesses-not-to-be-in-a-hurry-to-leave-russia-media-rt-business-news/). He is not the only one of course. Economic decisions before all to protect financial interests. Anyone is free to make his/her own interpretation on that matter, but it is pretty clear as usual. Including in these big corporations, a major French supermarket chain. As long as it is business as usual, shelves will be filled with food and products. If all these French companies stop doing business in Russia, it would have a direct huge economical impact on the French economy and 1000s jobs losses in France. The presidential elections in France are next month so anyone can understand why Macron does not want that to happen "in a hurry". And that goes for all countries doing business with Russia, and being supplied vital ressources from Russia. Announcements in the media, propaganda is one thing, reality of the World is quite another.

So I am not sure Stardurst how you managed to understand the situation as it is written in your comment but basically, it is simply right the opposite. For now anyway...

 

"Grandmother what big paragraphs you have?". 

“All the better to baffle you with", the Wolf replied.

Any European countries joining NATO will get protection.

You are way ahead of yourself.

[butterfly]

44 minutes ago, dj230 said:

US just allowed NATO allies to send fighter jets to Ukraine, sounds like this is escalating vs de-escalating. 

Wonder what Russia will do in response. 

the US is not on the front line, so easy for them to start a war in Europe

delivering those jets won't change anything, it's a token to appease the Ukraine President and save face while poking fun at the big Russian bear

what could possibly go wrong? 

[Fester]

1 minute ago, butterfly said:

the US is not on the front line, so easy for them to start a war in Europe

delivering those jets won't change anything, it's a token to appease the Ukraine President and save face while poking fun at the big Russian bear

what could possibly go wrong? 

What could possibly go wrong? They might forget to include the batteries, I suppose.

[butterfly]

4 minutes ago, Fester said:

What could possibly go wrong? They might forget to include the batteries, I suppose.

or jet fuel? 

again dangerous games, and yes NATO looks foolish in this conflict, I understand they want to look like they are doing something, anything

but the only solution is peace and negotiation, Putin demands are very reasonable, why should innocent people die to join a military lobbying complex? it's madness,

Edited March 7, 2022 by butterfly

[EdwardV]

2 minutes ago, butterfly said:

the US is not on the front line, so easy for them to start a war in Europe

delivering those jets won't change anything, it's a token to appease the Ukraine President and save face while poking fun at the big Russian bear

Pretty sure the war is already going on and Putin stated it. 
 

Its not about appeasing the Ukrainian president or about trying to win the war. It’s all about bleeding out the Russian army. As long as they are fighting in Ukraine, they are not moving into the Baltic States. It’s the same rational behind sending anti tank and anti aircraft missiles. If you can bleed them out enough, the Russian demographics will kill off the army as a future offensive threat. 

[butterfly]

8 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Pretty sure the war is already going on and Putin stated it. 

 

he started an invasion, things can always get worse by involving directly NATO allies

now, that would be a real war

8 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

It’s all about bleeding out the Russian army. As long as they are fighting in Ukraine, they are not moving into the Baltic States. It’s the same rational behind sending anti tank and anti aircraft missiles. If you can bleed them out enough, the Russian demographics will kill off the army as a future offensive threat. 

how did that work in Chechenia, they didn't get your memo 

 

[Fluke]

34 minutes ago, butterfly said:

the US is not on the front line, so easy for them to start a war in Europe

delivering those jets won't change anything, it's a token to appease the Ukraine President and save face while poking fun at the big Russian bear

what could possibly go wrong? 

Those NATO fighter planes will soon be shooting Russian jets out the sky . 

[EdwardV]

11 minutes ago, butterfly said:

how did that work in Chechenia, they didn't get your memo 

Not a good comparison. Chechenia is a small country of about 1.3M while Ukraine is 44M. Ukraine is a huge country made up of farmlands and filled with towns, perfect location for an insurgency. It also borders countries more than happy to send over supplies and advanced weapons. Apples and oranges  

[1l1]

4 hours ago, Artemis080 said:

The world needs to continue to throw Russia and any ally into the Dark Ages with imposing an unthinkable level of sanctions.

One more North Korea with a nuclear weapon this time. Smart. 

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, Manu said:

Oh dear oh dear...

It seems people forgot that Putin has been in power for over 20 years now and a lot has happened since then. For a start, he has imposed austerity on his people all these years for the purpose of being self-sufficient in resources... so they can be prepared of the eventuality of a war. Russia has all it needs to survive war time for quite a while now, quite the opposite of the European Union (which by the way is not at war, Ukraine is), dependant for a start on gas coming...from Russia. Germany alone, the strongest European economy, would see its economy literally collapse if Russia cuts off the gas pipelines (the Nord Stream 2 pipeline episode a few days ago is also another joke announcement, by the way project that Ukraine was not very happy about in the first place but who cared about Ukraine then https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-to-stop-nord-stream-2/). Russia is prepared but it will take years for the EU to change its infrastructures to be independent of the Russian gas (and other ressources). They have never had any strategy of its kinds cause the EU is a complete joke and the only one laughing now is Putin. Meanwhile, Russia is getting ahead by securing 117 billion dollars revenues from its gas by selling to...China of course (https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-russia-china-agree-30-year-gas-deal-using-new-pipeline-source-2022-02-04/ ). Of course, that is no coincidence it happened just before the war got started.

The US controlled NATO... By allowing eastern European countries to join, what was to be expected? Exactly what has been happening, first Georgia (who's former president is currently on hunger strike in jail - that's what is waiting for the Ukrainian president  I guess unless he manages to escape before, no doubt he will https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/21/georgias-jailed-ex-leader-starts-hunger-strike-over-medical-car ), and then Crimea and now Ukraine. Stopping NATO (therefore the US) advance on Russia seemed to be the logical move, any other "powerful" country would have done the same, never mind a psychopat dictator. For these Eastern European countries joining NATO, it was win-win-win for them. They get protection (well the US protection, that's what they thought anyway, how wrong they were) and loads of financial aids, a lot of it that went directly in the pockets of corrupt politicians and elites of those countries. And now the US made it clear as Biden reminded everyone, they will not send a single soldier there. Why would they anyway? It would be no economical nor any other gain for them, there is no other war than economical wars, people who think that the US would go to war in order to defend "democracy" are fools. Unfortunately European countries failed to understand that. Not to mention that it would lead certainly to some kind of nuclear power move with the obvious consequences. So instead, NATO "allies" in Europe do their best to "do something", meaning another shameful joke. France sent some troops in Romania as well as its aircraft carrier. Another useless desperate move... Meanwhile the French president urges businesses not to leave Russia (https://todayworldnews.in/russia/france-urges-its-businesses-not-to-be-in-a-hurry-to-leave-russia-media-rt-business-news/). He is not the only one of course. Economic decisions before all to protect financial interests. Anyone is free to make his/her own interpretation on that matter, but it is pretty clear as usual. Including in these big corporations, a major French supermarket chain. As long as it is business as usual, shelves will be filled with food and products. If all these French companies stop doing business in Russia, it would have a direct huge economical impact on the French economy and 1000s jobs losses in France. The presidential elections in France are next month so anyone can understand why Macron does not want that to happen "in a hurry". And that goes for all countries doing business with Russia, and being supplied vital ressources from Russia. Announcements in the media, propaganda is one thing, reality of the World is quite another.

So I am not sure Stardurst how you managed to understand the situation as it is written in your comment but basically, it is simply right the opposite. For now anyway...

Yes the reality is exactly the opposite of your conclusions! The news are full with studies what exactly say your conclusions are wrong in almost all news outlets I read. So I had to make the page full of links especially your economic knowledge about russia is absolut giberrish and about energy and minerals they cut now. 2nd you really not understand how sanctions works and you think this will be just for a few countries in the west I sugest read a bout Sanctions abpit North Korea etc and understand is worldwide. Sure everything in english is a great difference like I would it wrote in my native languages.

[Alavan]

1 hour ago, butterfly said:

but the only solution is peace and negotiation, Putin demands are very reasonable

You always say Putin’s demands are very reasonable.

can you tell me what his demands are and how they can be regarded as reasonable?

In 2014 he took the Crimea, now he wants a bigger part of Ukraine, including  a corridor from the Crimea to Donbas, plus a pupet gouvernment in Kiev, plus a few other things probably,

[Dedinbed]

1 hour ago, butterfly said:

what could possibly go wrong?

Putin will get his a*se kicked that's what could go wrong , turn Russia into pariahs and set their economy back decades as a result of this .. 

A force number nearly 200,000 assembled along 2/3 rd's of Ukraine's border's has not performed anything like the expectation placed upon it .. the combined arms of air and ground forces has been woeful with uncoordinated advances in some regions meeting huge resistance .. a convoy north of the capital has been there over a week leaving it open to air ( drones) and artillery fire .. the increasing number of anti tank missiles being supplied is wroughting losses on their armour .. increasing number of anti aircraft missiles is adding to the losses of helicopters which will be the only means of movement if this descends into a no holds barred insurgency where IED's in their many forms will come into play rendering movement by vehicle extremely hazardous .. And if as seems the tactic is evolving into one of shelling of towns and cities the Russians know better than anyone as they showed at Stalingrad that flattening cities through bombing as the Germans did there then turned their lives into hell trying to take the ruins .. No despite all of the bluster and threats from Putin they are looking at a drawn out attritional conflict in which they will incur heavy losses all the while the nation itself will suffer huge economic damage that will take decades to recover from .. 

1 hour ago, butterfly said:

how did that work in Chechenia, they didn't get your memo 

Russian forces lost 70% of a 200 hundred strong tank force in the 1994 battle of Grozny after ill conceived tactics including taking main battle tanks into built up areas where the much vaunted T80 tank was cruelly exposed and then withdrawn after suffering losses and reliability issues in field to the point where it was a liability .. 

[Chatogaster]

3 hours ago, Shade_Wilder said:

I fully agree that Putin is a "cutthroat dictator".

However, I strongly disagree with your post; If ending Putin is not the responsibility of the Russian people, then whose responsibility is it? 

Seriously, whose responsibility is it?

The Ukrainians? The Japanese? The Ugandans? The Argentinians? The Kiwis? The Hondurans?

Whose?

If I may be direct; Putin is the Russian people's responsibility and they need to stop him. They've allowed him to have/accumulate power for over twenty years, and after twenty years you cannot say "Oops... Er... Ahem... Sorry... Not My Problem".

I fully agree that it won't be easy, but the bloodshed Putin is causing rests on the Russian people's hands, and they need to clean their house.

Sorry if that offends, but...

 

No offence taken.

Your argument makes sense on the surface (and I don't entirely disagree), but it's not unlike the scenario of a wife that gets beaten up by her abusive husband whenever she disagrees. The wife may have thoughts like "I have no place to go" / "it's an incident" / "it will heal" / "it grew gradually" / "maybe he's right" / "I'll watch my mouth next time", etc.

Who is to blame other than the husband? According to your reasoning, the wife carries most of the blame and she should be slapped silly for allowing that kind of abuse (maybe I'm taking the metaphor a bit too far here). My take is that part of the blame, or more accurately, the responsibility for a solution also lies with neighbors and friends.

So my answer to your repetitive question "Whose responsibility?" is: it belongs to Russians, but only in part and I don't expect a deposition of Putin as a result of targeting civilians. It also belongs to neighboring countries, the EU, NATO and basically everybody who values the human right to individuality and self-organization.

On a side-note: expelling Russians now would mean moving them from a country where they have free access to global news into a country where the news feeds are maximally biased.

 

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

Not a good comparison. Chechenia is a small country of about 1.3M while Ukraine is 44M. Ukraine is a huge country made up of farmlands and filled with towns, perfect location for an insurgency. It also borders countries more than happy to send over supplies and advanced weapons. Apples and oranges  

He doesn,t know any worldmap and the difference between the regions and Europe. It is absolut absurd chechenis to compare with Ukraine. I guess if you tell him any name of a european country he could not show you it on a map or globe. I guess he even doesn't know where europe ends and Asia starts.

[Faz]

 

Hi Members,

Each of you has been a recent contributor to the threads about the situation in the Ukraine. There has been some excellent debate and some probably best left to a time when you talk to yourself in the mirror!

Members do need to remember that all opinions are welcome providing they meet the Guidelines of the Forum. We want you to be able to have your opinion, however you must equally make sure your post meets all posting Guidelines. Sadly, far too many posts are failing this test and hence requiring intervention by the Moderators.

In these times we will need to work together to display cooler heads. Please review what you are writing and make sure it meets our Guidelines. Ask yourself this question. Is what I am posting my own opinion or am I just reacting with emotion to someone else? The latter type of posts are the most common ones removed.

If quoting facts be they inferred or otherwise, include URL links so other members may better understand your perspective. Check your material is factual and on topic. There is a substantial amount of disinformation, propaganda and false stories humming around the internet now. Being sceptical and not accepting of news stories should be your baseline.

By doing so, civil healthy debate can be maintained at the fullest extent without the need for the Moderators to be involved.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Regards

Moderator

 

[Sandbar]

We now see this man for what he is really worth...nothing! His face will always be remembered throughout history as a ruthless sadistic dictator, loathed by humanity as well as his own people. 

[Fester]

2 hours ago, butterfly said:

or jet fuel? 

again dangerous games, and yes NATO looks foolish in this conflict, I understand they want to look like they are doing something, anything

but the only solution is peace and negotiation, Putin demands are very reasonable, why should innocent people die to join a military lobbying complex? it's madness,

Using the words Putin and reasonable together doesn't work well.  

[KRLMRX]

while local experts defeat Putin by typing on keyboards,  Mr. Miller from Gazprom now receives 2 times more dollars and 4 times more rubles.

spring futures for gas in Europe grew 2-3 times. 

https://www.theice.com/products/27996665/Dutch-TTF-Gas-Futures/data?marketId=5360399&span=1

and on the Hong Kong stock exchange, someone shrewdly pulls the shares of the Russian aluminum giant up 34%

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/0486.hk/

War is business.

[dj230]

3 hours ago, Fester said:

link please??????

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russia-nato-fighter-jets-antony-blinken-face-the-nation/

 

this isn't the article I read but I just googled it, if I remember correctly the article I read mentioned something to the tune of, US making a deal with Poland to sent US fighter jets to Poland in exchange for Poland to send their fighter jets to Ukraine (ironically Russian ones if I remember correctly)

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by dj230

[Fester]

3 hours ago, dj230 said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russia-nato-fighter-jets-antony-blinken-face-the-nation/

this isn't the article I read but I just googled it, if I remember correctly the article I read mentioned something to the tune of, US making a deal with Poland to sent US fighter jets to Poland in exchange for Poland to send their fighter jets to Ukraine (ironically Russian ones if I remember correctly)

The way you put that was a bit misleading. Yes. Poland may receive some F16s from the US if they let Ukraine have a similar number of their Mig29s, plus (maybe), some Su22s.

But NATO air forces will not engage Russia directly for now. 

[Bill212]

This is false. Russia is bombing the humanitarian corridors. Dont believe this article. It is misinformation. Civilians are being slaughtered. 

[GMoney2312]

Anyone see the press conference with Russian POW`s?

Interesting.

https://rumble.com/vwo0fs-russian-pow-in-the-ukraine-we-were-lied-to-i-feel-ashamed....html

[Manu]

On 3/7/2022 at 5:29 PM, Stardust said:

Yes the reality is exactly the opposite of your conclusions! The news are full with studies what exactly say your conclusions are wrong in almost all news outlets I read. So I had to make the page full of links especially your economic knowledge about russia is absolut giberrish and about energy and minerals they cut now. 2nd you really not understand how sanctions works and you think this will be just for a few countries in the west I sugest read a bout Sanctions abpit North Korea etc and understand is worldwide. Sure everything in english is a great difference like I would it wrote in my native languages.

Not a really good one there… You know better I know nothing is the worse human argument possible. Calm down mate, we both try to understand something that we cannot. Take it easy.

[Manu]

On 3/7/2022 at 4:14 PM, Fester said:

"Grandmother what big paragraphs you have?". 

“All the better to baffle you with", the Wolf replied.

Any European countries joining NATO will get protection.

You are way ahead of yourself.

Ok, not sure to get any point there. That’s it, 3 nonsense sentences are supposed to make a point. Ok, I am sure civilians in horror right now because of something our “great” leader have triggered along the way are watching your insane comment here. No war is good , but none of them are created by you and me, our leaders and their elite people who put them there  you get that point, you get the point.