News Forum - UKRAINE UPDATES: Russia captures key port city, 1 million refugees have fled

[oldschooler]

6 hours ago, 1l1 said:

NATO expanded in 90-s after the USSR collapse but before Putin.

Also NATO expanded in 2004 during Putin's first term when he was no so authoritarian.

So no, NATO would NOT have been disbanded.

Fair enough to say that russians chose tyranny ("stronk leader") because of NATO expansion.

Anyway, you admit that NATO expansion is the reason of this war.

Russia had the chance to be Free in 1991 but just didn’t know how as Russia ain’t never been Free. 

NATO is clearly a purely DEFENSIVE Alliance of Free Nations against a Dangerous Unfree Russia. NATO permitted Other Free Nations, previously enslaved by Russia, to join. 

War Reason is that Russia wants Ukraine as Puppet / Neutral Buffer State because they foolishly allowed Ukraine independence in 1991without proper Partition.

 

[HiuMak]

A matter of time Ukraine will be taken.

[MikeEllen]

4 hours ago, HiuMak said:

A matter of time Ukraine will be taken.

But will never truly be taken as Russian forces will suffer a death by a thousand cuts of an insurgency. Then, eventually Russian forces will leave in shame and return to their country, which will be like a third world slum by then. 

So, well done to Russia for destroying a healthy democracy and replacing it with a wreck of a country full of corpses and a deadly intent to resist tyranny. Good work Russia. You will now be stuck within your borders, unable to leave and surrounded by the NATO hardware you feared. f***ing idiots.

[MikeEllen]

And thousands and thousands of Russian and Ukrainian children without fathers, women without husbands and mothers without sons. 

Good work Russia! You are officially the most despised and mocked people on the planet. 

[KRLMRX]

There is a Russian proverb - for some it is war, but for some it is their own mother

Wall Street Is Pouncing on Russia's Cheap Corporate Debt

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-03/wall-street-is-already-pouncing-on-russia-s-cheap-corporate-debt

Edited March 5, 2022 by KRLMRX

[MikeEllen]

22 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

There is a Russian proverb - for some it is war, but for some it is their own mother

What does that mean? 

[KRLMRX]

2 minutes ago, MikeEllen said:

What does that mean? 

this means - for some, war is suffering, but for some it is a way to earn money.

[MikeEllen]

8 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

this means - for some, war is suffering, but for some it is a way to earn money.

True enough, except the people suffering massively outnumber the ones making money, so Russia needs to change that. 

[1l1]

8 hours ago, Stardust said:

There is and never was a Nato expansion. Souverign countries decide by them self their Alliances! Countries can apply at the Nato!

NATO is established to opposite the Warsaw treaty organization and the Soviet Union but enlarged to the east after both were collapsed in 1991. 

8 hours ago, Stardust said:

Russia invades and forces countries! 

7 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Russia had the chance to be Free in 1991 but just didn’t know how as Russia ain’t never been Free. 

NATO is clearly a purely DEFENSIVE Alliance of Free Nations against a Dangerous Unfree Russia. NATO permitted Other Free Nations, previously enslaved by Russia, to join.

NATO invaded and forced Bosnia in 1992, Yugoslavia in 1999, Lybia in 2011.

So at 00-s russians were fed enough of this bullshit about NATO peacekeeping intentions and made their choise.

Simple test to understand if Russia always was the goal of NATO -- could NATO have accepted Russia in 1990-s before Putins regime? I doubt so.

Edited March 5, 2022 by 1l1

[Poolie]

51 minutes ago, MikeEllen said:

True enough, except the people suffering massively outnumber the ones making money, so Russia needs to change that. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-03/wall-street-is-already-pouncing-on-russia-s-cheap-corporate-debt

Not Russia.

[1l1]

7 hours ago, oldschooler said:

NATO is clearly a purely DEFENSIVE Alliance

The Warsaw treaty organization was clearly a purely DEFENSIVE alliance too.

You know the dilemma: a defensive weapon of one seems offensive for another.

Edited March 5, 2022 by 1l1

[MikeEllen]

4 minutes ago, 1l1 said:

The Warsaw treaty organization was clearly a purely DEFENSIVE alliance too.

You know the dilemma: a defensive weapon of one seems offensive for another.

Where Putin has lost his game of chess is the bit where most Russians turn their back on him and throw him to the wolves because he's bankrupted Russia and ensured that there will be NATO weaponry surrounding Russia forever. 

He's a madman. 

[Stardust]

17 minutes ago, 1l1 said:

NATO is established to opposite the Warsaw treaty organization and the Soviet Union but enlarged to the east after both were collapsed in 1991. 

NATO invaded and forced Bosnia in 1992, Yugoslavia in 1999, Lybia in 2011.

So at 00-s russians were fed enough of this bullshit about NATO peacekeeping intentions and made their choise.

Simple test to understand if Russia always was the goal of NATO -- could NATO have accepted Russia in 1990-s before Putins regime? I doubt so.

What an upper nonsense by the way I am of the generations who had to serve while the Balkan wars and can tell you if the eu nato didn't stopped the massacres on civillians millions more civiliians had to dy or suffered and there was no occupations of any european nato unit in any country in europe This show me your knowledge need no further discussion just fake news what you are spreading! There was never any occupations in europe (eu nato units) or any forced nato memberships! It doesn't exist!  Stop your misinformation campaigns!

[1l1]

2 hours ago, MikeEllen said:

You are officially the most despised and mocked people on the planet.

Doesn't work with russian mindset. More oppression or humilation - more aggresion in response. There are many russian proverbs and idioms cheering a sufferance as the way to become stronger. Germans were the most despised and mocked people after WWI - that's how the Nazis became so popular.

[KRLMRX]

1 hour ago, MikeEllen said:

True enough, except the people suffering massively outnumber the ones making money, so Russia needs to change that. 

if Russia stops now, the owners of Wall Street and their managers in the White House, the Kremlin will come up with a new war - this is how this system works. Russia changed that in 1917 and for 70 years about half of the world didn't make money from blood. Now everything has returned to the dark past and more and more people will die for money, unfortunately.

[Stardust]

29 minutes ago, 1l1 said:

The Warsaw treaty organization was clearly a purely DEFENSIVE alliance too.

You know the dilemma: a defensive weapon of one seems offensive for another.

These nonsense you should tell any eastern european country. They were occupied by Russia and forced into the warszaw pact. Maybe read the history of europe/ eastern europe first. Sure and thats why russians tanks came to east germany/ czech republik, hungaria etc when they wanted to be souverignity and to be free. Ever heard something about the Prague spring etc?

[Smithydog]

51 minutes ago, 1l1 said:

NATO is established to opposite the Warsaw treaty organization and the Soviet Union but enlarged to the east after both were collapsed in 1991. 

NATO invaded and forced Bosnia in 1992, Yugoslavia in 1999, Lybia in 2011.

So at 00-s russians were fed enough of this bullshit about NATO peacekeeping intentions and made their choise.

Simple test to understand if Russia always was the goal of NATO -- could NATO have accepted Russia in 1990-s before Putins regime? I doubt so.

I am struggling to understand how you can justify the current situation in the Ukraine using the missions you state.

Firstly, for historical content, NATO was established in 1949, 6 years before the Warsaw pact was created in 1955. https://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/formation-of-nato-and-warsaw-pact

In two of those, it seems NATO was acting under the terms of a UN Security Council Resolution (Bosnia & Lybia). Russia has no such resolution for Ukraine, using their own veto power to avoid any Security Council resolution on their own action. If it is so holy and needed, why was no resolution gained before acting? Are they simply saying that because other countries may have done it, it is ok for us to do the same? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_intervention_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya

In the case of Yugoslavia, I agree, NATO acted in support of opposing forces to a renowned dictator, without the support of a UN resolution. I do note that at the same time Russia brought forces in as well. But in this case there are no NATO forces in Ukraine. Are you saying NATO should now go in because Russia has?

If the intention in Ukraine was to act as peacekeepers, why weren't the troops just sent into the two disputed territories first. Why are the Russians seeking to attack areas not in dispute and seem now to be attacking areas beyond military targets to "protect" their troops. 

The answer is simple. It is not Putin's intention whatsoever to be "Peacekeepers". It is all a "Maskikrovka" (Military Deception) and nothing aligned to his true purpose of expanding the Russian empire back to the glory days. Another dictator thinking he can do whatever he wants.

As to NATO expansion. Yes that has occurred, no doubt. But perhaps the Leaders of those countries from the former Soviet Union who chose to seek membership, better understand the reality of Russia and its Leaders more than most, having been under their influence for some time.

One could also ask as to where were all those former Soviet Republics from the old USSR lining up to back up good old "Mother Russia" in the special UN General Assembly. Perhaps they too know more about the real intentions of Russia and its leader.

[Marble-eye]

15 minutes ago, 1l1 said:

Doesn't work with russian mindset. More oppression or humilation - more aggresion in response. There are many russian proverbs and idioms cheering a sufferance as the way to become stronger. Germans were the most despised and mocked people after WWI - that's how the Nazis became so popular.

The Nazis became popular because of all the lies that was spoon fed to them by Herr Hitler and Goebbels, some people credit the saying "if you tell a lie often enough it becomes truth" to one of them. And that is the reason that the puffed up, pumped up phycopath Putin has taken control of all the media in Russia. You are being lied to.

Time for Russians to wake up and smell the coffee

[1l1]

15 minutes ago, Stardust said:

This show me your knowledge need no further discussion just fake news what you are spreading! There was never any occupations in europe (eu nato units) or any forced nato memberships!

Stop juggling with terms. You've started with "invasion" and finished with "occupation". I gave you an example of NATO invasions in 90-s, you blamed me for ignorance because these are not "occupations". Kinda different meaning, eh?

38 minutes ago, Stardust said:

if the eu nato didn't stopped the massacres on civillians millions more civiliians had to dy or suffered

First, actually more civilians died and suffered during NATO "peacekeeping" campaing using cluster bombs and shooting the fleeing refugees as it's documented by Human Rights Watch.

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/nato/Natbm200-01.htm

Second, Putin uses the same argument: "More civilians in Donbass could die or suffer if Russia don't stop the Kyiv gov't".

So your arguments excuse the NATO invasion in Kosovo are no different from putins arguments excuse his invasion in Ukraine.

46 minutes ago, Stardust said:

There was never any occupations in europe (eu nato units) or any forced nato memberships!

I didn't say a word about forced nato membership.

[Rookiescot]

10 minutes ago, 1l1 said:

Stop juggling with terms. You've started with "invasion" and finished with "occupation". I gave you an example of NATO invasions in 90-s, you blamed me for ignorance because these are not "occupations". Kinda different meaning, eh?

First, actually more civilians died and suffered during NATO "peacekeeping" campaing using cluster bombs and shooting the fleeing refugees as it's documented by Human Rights Watch.

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/nato/Natbm200-01.htm

Second, Putin uses the same argument: "More civilians in Donbass could die or suffer if Russia don't stop the Kyiv gov't".

So your arguments excuse the NATO invasion in Kosovo are no different from putins arguments excuse his invasion in Ukraine.

I didn't say a word about forced nato membership.

So Putin wanted to send in peace keeping forces into Donbas. Thats what he he said.

Why has he invaded the whole of the Ukraine then?

[Alavan]

1 hour ago, 1l1 said:

NATO is established to opposite the Warsaw treaty organization and the Soviet Union but enlarged to the east after both were collapsed in 1991. 

NATO invaded and forced Bosnia in 1992, Yugoslavia in 1999, Lybia in 2011.

So at 00-s russians were fed enough of this bullshit about NATO peacekeeping intentions and made their choise.

Simple test to understand if Russia always was the goal of NATO -- could NATO have accepted Russia in 1990-s before Putins regime? I doubt so.

Maybe you should learn the difference between NATO and UN peacekeeping forces (including Russian) in former Yugoslavia

[1l1]

24 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Why has he invaded the whole of the Ukraine then?

Probably certainly he is out of his mind.

22 minutes ago, Alavan said:

Maybe you should learn the difference between NATO and UN peacekeeping forces (including Russian) in former Yugoslavia

Maybe you should learn the difference between round and warm? What's your point? NATO didn't has anything to do with Yugoslavia?

Edited March 5, 2022 by 1l1

[1l1]

1 hour ago, Marble-eye said:

The Nazis became popular because of all the lies that was spoon fed to them by Herr Hitler and Goebbels. 

Yes, and the reson why the germans were easily spoon fed by Herr Hittler is because they felt oppressed and humilated after WW1 and were eager to find a new enemy and blame him for their problems (jews, communists etc.).

[Marble-eye]

4 minutes ago, 1l1 said:

Yes, and the reson why the germans were easily spoon fed by Herr Hittler is because they felt oppressed and humilated after WW1 and were eager to find a new enemy and blame him for their problems (jews, communists etc.).

So to make themselves feel better they decided on a genocide spree.

So are you saying that you feel oppressed  and that is the reason you are killing civilians Inc women and children, bombing civilian housing, nuclear power plants, need I go on?

[Rookiescot]

21 minutes ago, 1l1 said:

Probably certainly he is out of his mind.

Maybe you should learn the difference between round and warm? What's your point? NATO didn't has anything to do with Yugoslavia?

So you think Putin is out of his mind?