News Forum - UKRAINE UPDATES: Russia captures key port city, 1 million refugees have fled

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, Stardust said:

For sure not the opinion of anybody in Europe and for sure you never experienced Russian agressions and the history of the Nato. Without the Nato there wouldn't be peace in the last century or west europe would be destroyed completly at this time. You really should understand the history of europe and how they suffered under the agressor Russia. Ask the Baltic countries or now he threatens Sweden and Finnland to attack them. There is only one agressor in Europe and thats Putin and not the USA. The Nato is to defend themself from this agressor. 

Totally agree. I'm not defending Putin or Russia in any way and I'm very aware of the history. 

Russia  could arguably have been the saviours of WW2

But I don't think there's been peace in the last century at all. There's been wars everywhere including Europe and a lot of the Middle East is still a mess

[Stardust]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

So who where you referring to when you said the west wants peace? 

I don't think any of them do. 

The only people who have pressed that button are?

America contribute by far the most to NATO. Its not the American army per se but they hold the most influence in the organisation. 

Apologies again going off topic. 

You really have no knowledge about Europe and why they founded Nato. Such things only can write anybody who know nothing about Europe and never been there, especially before the wall fall. Read the history books in Europe and educate yourself first before writing anything you don't know anything about! And maybe ask Europeans about the history.

[MikeEllen]

Just now, JohnC said:

So who where you referring to when you said the west wants peace? 

I don't think any of them do. 

The only people who have pressed that button are?

America contribute by far the most to NATO. Its not the American army per se but they hold the most influence in the organisation. 

Apologies again going off topic. 

'the west'? What is that?!

 

Tell me which countries DON'T want peace please. Yes it was America who dropped the bombs on Japan. It was a desperate and a long war and the idea was to stop it. Nobody, at that point in time, understood the full implications of nuclear weapons and America and her allies were quick to say that it must not happen again. Nobody since, with the sole exception of putin has threatened to use nuclear weapons. 

 

I'm not American, but I know that they are fed up with foreign wars. Most Americans don't want to have anything to do with problems elsewhere on the planet and have been stung by the events of the last twenty years. 

[JohnC]

Just now, Stardust said:

You really have no knowledge about Europe and why they founded Nato. Such things only can write anybody who know nothing about Europe and never been there, especially before the wall fall. Read the history books in Europe and educate yourself first before writing anything you don't know anything about! And maybe ask Europeans about the history.

You're not the only one who reads history and I've travelled all over Europe and lived there for six years also. 

I just have a different opinion and a better grasp of English than you. 

[Stardust]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Totally agree. I'm not defending Putin or Russia in any way and I'm very aware of the history. 

Russia  could arguably have been the saviours of WW2

But I don't think there's been peace in the last century at all. There's been wars everywhere including Europe and a lot of the Middle East is still a mess

Yes Russia is creating a big mess from the middle east, europe til Africa. First he send his legions like the wagner group to create a mess (same in the Ukraine) and after he sent the military. In Syria he massacred civilluans in a brutality the people who never experienced war never could imagine. Yes Europe experienced many wars and thats why they came together and founded the Nato what guranted them peace.

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, MikeEllen said:

'the west'? What is that?!

Tell me which countries DON'T want peace please. Yes it was America who dropped the bombs on Japan. It was a desperate and a long war and the idea was to stop it. Nobody, at that point in time, understood the full implications of nuclear weapons and America and her allies were quick to say that it must not happen again. Nobody since, with the sole exception of putin has threatened to use nuclear weapons. 

I'm not American, but I know that they are fed up with foreign wars. Most Americans don't want to have anything to do with problems elsewhere on the planet and have been stung by the events of the last twenty years. 

I asked you due to your statement the west wants peace?

No normal person in the world wants a war but power hungry people cause it wherever they are from. I include both Russia and America in that. If these people didn't do that i think the average person in the world would all get along. T

A lot of people and companies make a lot of money from war unfortunately it is big business. 

It'd be great if every country scrapped their armies and weapons but its not going to happen is it

[Stardust]

11 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You're not the only one who reads history and I've travelled all over Europe and lived there for six years also. 

I just have a different opinion and a better grasp of English than you. 

I am not a native english speaker. Which other languages than english do you speak and which european languages do you speak as you claimed you lived 6 years in Europe?

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Stardust said:

I am not a native english speaker. Which other languages than english do you speak and which european language you speak as you claimed you lived 6 years in Europe?

I lived in Germany for 6 years but whilst working for the British army so my German is pretty average. 

Little bit of Spanish and French also but what does that matter here ?

Stop being a keyboard warrior and being so defensive. It's just a debate on the Internet. 

I'm not going to lie to someone I don't know?

Some right narky cranks on here 

[MikeEllen]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

It'd be great if every country scrapped their armies and weapons but its not going to happen is it

No, it won't and it shouldn't happen because weapons actually reduce conflict, ironically. You always need weapons just in case a psycho appears on the scene, who only understands one language. Pacifism doesn't work against lunatics. 

[EdwardV]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

A lot of people and companies make a lot of money from war unfortunately it is big business.

The military industrial complex isn't behind the war in Ukraine. There isn't going to be huge sums of money from the war itself. The NLAW/Javelin and Stinger missiles are low cost weapons relatively speaking. 

Now there will be huge sums of money to be made in the rearming of Europe. Particularly in Germany and the countries to the north and east of them. However none of those countries wanted to rearm. So unless you think Putin started this war for western arms makers to make money ... seem kinda counter productive if you ask me. 

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

Let us not forget, the war didn't begin 8 days ago, it began 8 years ago. 

Biden could have prevented all of it... but he didn't. Russia has all but begged the west not to cross its Red Lines. The Alzeihmer's patient is being handled by the rabid, psychopathic neocon/libs... this war will be prolonged now that the West has ignored the sane attempts by Putin to prevent this. And the West adds fuel to the fire by sending in even more weapons and logistics to the Ukranians, leading more Ukrainian soldiers to their inevitable deaths. Putin was of course looking for a quick surrender... but the West doesn't want that. Here is some excellent truthful analysis of the first few days of this event from a Pro NATO, Pro Ukrainian news source... 

https://warontherocks.com/2022/02/interpreting-the-first-few-days-of-the-russo-ukrainian-war/

Free Nations are naturally Defensive and care NOTHING about “red lines” set by Tyrants. They are free to make alliances & trade etc. as they wish and would indeed be fools now not to join NATO if possible as Sweden & Finland will do shortly.
 

Ukraine really needs , in any event, to be Partitioned into Ukrainian & Russian ethnic states to ensure permanent peace by meeting Unfree Russian expressed security needs.  

If only Russia were also Free this war need never have happened and NATO would have been disbanded but the Russian people chose tyranny again after USSR fell and shall reap the consequences of putting a old KGB murderer in charge for 23 years now.However it now appears Russia may be slowly imploding internally as the present semi-westernized modern generation, with no memory of communism, are far less tolerant of tyranny than the West believed. 

 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, EdwardV said:

The military industrial complex isn't behind the war in Ukraine. There isn't going to be huge sums of money from the war itself. The NLAW/Javelin and Stinger missiles are low cost weapons relatively speaking. 

Now there will be huge sums of money to be made in the rearming of Europe. Particularly in Germany and the countries to the north and east of them. However none of those countries wanted to rearm. So unless you think Putin started this war for western arms makers to make money ... seem kinda counter productive if you ask me. 

It's interesting though that a couple of years ago America were complaining that Europe wasn't pulling its weight in NATO with regards to spend but now it is? 

Just a bit of whataboutism sorry. 

Agree with what you're saying although our opinion of low cost might differ. Won't all these missiles getting fired need replacing and the rebuilding of a country make money through contacts etc

Not being funny genuinely don't know but when America contribution to NATO is in the trillions that spells big business to me

[Stardust]

52 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I lived in Germany for 6 years but whilst working for the British army so my German is pretty average. 

Little bit of Spanish and French also but what does that matter here ?

Stop being a keyboard warrior and being so defensive. It's just a debate on the Internet. 

I'm not going to lie to someone I don't know?

Some right narky cranks on here 

As I wrote before we had to serve by mandate you would know I am not a native english speaker and sure we can switch to German or Thai by the messenger as you claimed you lived and served there and see how your grasp in this languages is . (So then you should have known that I don't speak English as a native speaker).

Edited March 3, 2022 by Smithydog
German translated to English

[JohnC]

10 minutes ago, Stardust said:

As I wrote before we had to serve by mandate you would know I am not a native english speaker and sure we can switch to German or Thai by the messenger as you claimed you lived and served there and see how your grasp in this languages is . (Also dann haettest du wissen muessen dass ich muttersprachlich nicht englisch spreche).

It's not a problem mate. Seriously stop being so defensive. I'm not attacking you or intend to either. 

You seem to be making me out to be a liar for some unknown reason. 

For what it's worth I lived in a place called brackwede which is part of the city of bielefeld. I can give you house number and street name if that makes it better for you. 

I worked on an army base so even my German colleagues were required to speak English and that's why my German is limited. 

I can speak a little but can't read or  write it very well at all. 

Satisfied?

Edited March 3, 2022 by JohnC

[Stardust]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

It's not a problem mate. Seriously stop being so defensive. I'm not attacking you or intend to either. 

You seem to be making me out to be a liar for some unknown reason. 

For what it's worth I lived in a place called brackwede which is part of the city of bielefeld. I can give you house number and street name if that makes it better for you. 

I worked on an army base so even my German colleagues were required to speak English and that's why my German is limited. 

I can speak a little but can't read or  write it very well at all. 

Satisfied?

And to them you also said your grasp of english is better? And did they tell you their grasp of german is better? I guess not.  I don't know when you served there but it must be before 2000 because the english bases left in Germany and American bases are in the south west and south ( had some others ,too but they closed them after the wall fall) . So then you maybe experienced the fall of the wall (89) and maybe the 90s with all the balkan wars and gives you the answer about Nato. And about why this revolutions happened in east germany and eastern europe. 

[Smithydog]

Gentlemen,

The Topic is about Ukraine and Russia capturing a port city, not about who speaks what languages or better or where people were stationed in Germany!

Let's get back to discussing the topic which is far more important than what has been in a few recent posts.

Moderator

[JohnC]

5 hours ago, Stardust said:

And to them you also said your grasp of english is better? And did they tell you their grasp of german is better? I guess not.  I don't know when you served there but it must be before 2000 because the english bases left in Germany and American bases are in the south west and south ( had some others ,too but they closed them after the wall fall) . So then you maybe experienced the fall of the wall (89) and maybe the 90s with all the balkan wars and gives you the answer about Nato. And about why this revolutions happened in east germany and eastern europe. 

I apologise for saying my English was better OK. I assumed you might be on a phone like me with auto correct etc

You are so wrong here. Catterick barracks in bielefeld shut march 2020. I was there. Paderborn closed a bit earlier. Sennelager is still there today and run by the British army etc

We gave kiel yacht club back to Germany in 2019

HQ British Forces Germany left Germany in 2020 after a 75 year occupancy 

Considering your from Germany you know *Word removed* 

Read this slowly. I worked for the British army. I wasn't in it. Understand?

Moderators I apologise for going off topic. Please close this thread so I don't get tempted to reply to this *word removed* again

Edited March 3, 2022 by Faraday
Not English & slightly offensive words removed

[KRLMRX]

the article does not say which port city in question.  

If this is about Mariupol, then the battles for it are still going on.  

If this is about Odessa, then only preparations are underway.

[CamPat]

My appologies for posting some info "Off topic". Perhaps i got carried away by the stress this subject caused on me. I try to behave in order not to get Sanctioned.

[Alavan]

15 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

the article does not say which port city in question.  

If this is about Mariupol, then the battles for it are still going on.  

If this is about Odessa, then only preparations are underway.

It is about Kershon

[KRLMRX]

10 hours ago, Alavan said:

It is about Kershon

I would like to understand why this port is key?  the lack of a fleet and a strategic position suggests otherwise.  Russian troops occupied this city without any resistance.

[Alavan]

1 hour ago, KRLMRX said:

I would like to understand why this port is key?  the lack of a fleet and a strategic position suggests otherwise.  Russian troops occupied this city without any resistance.

I don’t know what the strategic position is. Maybe a strategic position as town, not as port. Seems it is a nodal point where a lot of roads and rails come together

And as far as I understand, there was resistance reported in non-Russian media.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Alavan

[1l1]

On 3/3/2022 at 7:34 PM, oldschooler said:

If only Russia were also Free this war need never have happened and NATO would have been disbanded but the Russian people chose tyranny

NATO expanded in 90-s after the USSR collapse but before Putin.

Also NATO expanded in 2004 during Putin's first term when he was no so authoritarian.

So no, NATO would NOT have been disbanded.

Fair enough to say that russians chose tyranny ("stronk leader") because of NATO expansion.

Anyway, you admit that NATO expansion is the reason of this war.

Edited March 4, 2022 by 1l1

[EdwardV]

21 minutes ago, Alavan said:

I don’t know what the strategic position is. Maybe a strategic position as town, not as port. Seems it is a nodal point where a lot of roads and rails come together

And as far as I understand, there was resistance reported in non-Russian media.

Kershon controls a strategic bridge over the Dnieper River (being a major barrier for east to west movement). The control of which is needed for the Russian army to move from Crimea to Odesa. The capture of Odesa is key for cutting off southern access to and from Ukraine and to move on to their next non-Ukraine objective of Moldova. Once you capture Odesa, you can roll up the from the south. From the media, there was a fierce battle for Kershon, but unlike in the north the ground is firm and good off road movement of tanks this time of year. Seems like it took a few more days to take, but it was more like what Russia had planned than with Kyiv. 

[Stardust]

6 hours ago, 1l1 said:

NATO expanded in 90-s after the USSR collapse but before Putin.

Also NATO expanded in 2004 during Putin's first term when he was no so authoritarian.

So no, NATO would NOT have been disbanded.

Fair enough to say that russians chose tyranny ("stronk leader") because of NATO expansion.

Anyway, you admit that NATO expansion is the reason of this war.

There is and never was a Nato expansion. Souverign countries decide by them self their Alliances! Countries can apply at the Nato!

Russia invades and forces countries! 

Russia says no country can decide for them self or are alliwed to vote for them self their own government!

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Edited March 5, 2022 by KaptainRob
Potentially offensive comment removed