News Forum - MP questions submarine purchase from China, says it will be delivered without an engine

[EdwardV]

If true, it’s too funny on so many levels. Wow 

[Poolie]

  On 3/1/2022 at 10:10 AM, Poolie said:

It's an allegation from an out-of-work politician. No defence needed from any thinking person.

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Ahem.

[Fluke]

  On 3/1/2022 at 12:19 PM, Huckster said:

It's 12.42 billion bath

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12.42 billion baths swapped for  submarine ?

[King Cotton]

  On 3/1/2022 at 2:05 PM, Fluke said:

12.42 billion baths swapped for  submarine ?

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Suds, then? 

[JamesR]

  On 3/1/2022 at 11:07 AM, Fluke said:

What do you expect for less than US$ 400 000 ?

For that price , it was probably just the shell being bought .

You wont get much submarine for that price 

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That is what I was thinking, a 'real' submarine costs about $3billion.

Maybe it is a two man submarine. 

[Cathat]

  On 3/1/2022 at 11:06 AM, Malc-Thai said:

Why do they need a sub.. the gulf of Thailands average depth is 58 metres.. safe working for a sub is 15-30 metres from the bottom?  The height of the sub must be 10-15 metres high?  Anyone flying over should see it ..

please correct me if I'm wrong on the figures 

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Am ex submariner informed me the seas around thailand are far to shallow to operate submarines,they would be very simple to detect and destroy.the world's major navy's prefer to operate them off the continental shelf complete with motors in very deep water for reasons obvious to everyone except the admirals of the thai navy.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Cathat

[Thommo]

Maybe there is a plan for some thai guy who is in Germany can bring one or two engines back as carry on

[SSimpson]

Please don't be so skeptical! There's a perfectly reasonable explanation. It's the latest Chinese 'stealth' sub and Thailand should be proud that they're the only customer.

[Alavan]

As the sea. Is so shallow they can put wheels under it and use a truck engine. No German motor needed

[Stardust]

  On 3/1/2022 at 1:53 PM, EdwardV said:

If true, it’s too funny on so many levels. Wow 

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It is true because Germany said no. BTW China cannot produce any warship or submarine without Germany. The tech needed is in all Chinese ships and submarines and supplied from Germany. China cannot produce any aircraft without supply not even a smart phone they can produce without supply.

https://www.dw.com/en/german-engine-technology-found-in-chinese-warships-report/a-59740301

By the way the Chinese space navigation and gps is under the european galileo program. China is not in any position to trouble around too much or have a big mouth. To bite the wrong hand is not usefull. The Germans are the submarines in their submarines and any tech and equipment they have.

[Stardust]

  On 3/2/2022 at 2:23 AM, Alavan said:

As the sea. Is so shallow they can put wheels under it and use a truck engine. No German motor needed

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Thesee are high complex tech and over 100 years of experience in developping submarines is not possible to copy. I not wanna go in details in this case but we can take just an example for carproduction and engine tech etc. even there is a lot of software, electronics inside and even in car productions you need semi conductors. China cannot even produce cars in China without supply from Germany or cooperations. Maybe this give you an answer how it is in more complex issues.

[Faz]

The whole purchase process reeks of incompetence.

Mr Yutthapong claimed China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co (CSOC), which signed the submarine contract with the navy, does not represent the Chinese government.
The CSOC is a private company, which means the submarine contract that the navy signed with the CSOC was not a government-to-government deal, he said.

Mr Yutthapong also said the company sent four personnel to Thailand to work on the submarine base construction project, but it turned out they applied for work permits to teach the Chinese language.  

Under the CSOC contract, the submarine must be powered by engines supplied by Germany's MTU, but the company refused to sell the engine to China, Mr Yutthapong alleged.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2270895/navy-buying-sub-with-no-engines

[Alavan]

  On 3/2/2022 at 4:24 AM, Stardust said:

Thesee are high complex tech and over 100 years of experience in developping submarines is not possible to copy. I not wanna go in details in this case but we can take just an example for carproduction and engine tech etc. even there is a lot of software, electronics inside and even in car productions you need semi conductors. China cannot even produce cars in China without supply from Germany or cooperations. Maybe this give you an answer how it is in more complex issues.

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Seems you don’t understand sarcasm. 
You must have jokes in Germany, not?

[Alavan]

  On 3/2/2022 at 5:10 AM, Faz said:

The whole purchase process reeks of incompetence.

Mr Yutthapong claimed China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co (CSOC), which signed the submarine contract with the navy, does not represent the Chinese government.
The CSOC is a private company, which means the submarine contract that the navy signed with the CSOC was not a government-to-government deal, he said.

Mr Yutthapong also said the company sent four personnel to Thailand to work on the submarine base construction project, but it turned out they applied for work permits to teach the Chinese language.  

Under the CSOC contract, the submarine must be powered by engines supplied by Germany's MTU, but the company refused to sell the engine to China, Mr Yutthapong alleged.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2270895/navy-buying-sub-with-no-engines

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Reminds me of a guy I once met.

Manager of the Port of Bangkok. I read later that just before retiring he ordered (and paid) for 3 dredgers to be built by a US company. Must be about 20 years ago.

Problem was, that US shipswharf was bankrupt and the money disappeared. He retired and 9 other people also left the gouvernment. I wonder if Thailand is still searching for those millions. Was big news in the BKK Post

[Stardust]

  On 3/2/2022 at 6:18 AM, Alavan said:

Seems you don’t understand sarcasm. 
You must have jokes in Germany, not?

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Yes I understand and it was not about you and for the ones who not understand the subject. Sorry for any misunderstanding but as you put up the subject with the truck engine, sure as a joke, it was the one to write about the subject.

[TopDeadSenter]

  On 3/1/2022 at 9:56 AM, Grumpish said:

Sounds about right - anyone remember the GT200 bomb detectors bought by the Thai army that turned out to be just empty plastic boxes? 

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novelty golf ball detectors IIRC

[Stardust]

  On 3/2/2022 at 5:10 AM, Faz said:

The whole purchase process reeks of incompetence.

Mr Yutthapong claimed China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co (CSOC), which signed the submarine contract with the navy, does not represent the Chinese government.
The CSOC is a private company, which means the submarine contract that the navy signed with the CSOC was not a government-to-government deal, he said.

Mr Yutthapong also said the company sent four personnel to Thailand to work on the submarine base construction project, but it turned out they applied for work permits to teach the Chinese language.  

Under the CSOC contract, the submarine must be powered by engines supplied by Germany's MTU, but the company refused to sell the engine to China, Mr Yutthapong alleged.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2270895/navy-buying-sub-with-no-engines

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All their warships or submarines are with German MAN tech or MTU. Chinese cannot produce by themself any sub, ship or aircrafts.

[Faz]

  On 3/2/2022 at 6:30 AM, Stardust said:

All their warships or submarines are with German MAN tech or MTU. Chinese cannot produce by themself any sub, ship or aircrafts.

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Not since 2020 if you read the link.

[Stardust]

  On 3/2/2022 at 7:06 AM, Faz said:

Not since 2020 if you read the link.

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Which link?

https://www.dw.com/en/german-engine-technology-found-in-chinese-warships-report/a-59740301

This one?

This things are on the table and definely they cannot produce any submarine, 100 % and MTU knows exactly why but for sure they cannot give any details. There ate also many components from other companies what I not mention now. But what they clearly said (Scholz) without that they cannot produce any ship, submarine or aircraft. There are very interesting talkshows in ard and zdf . Ok show me one source that China could supply any submarine, warship or aircraft without any supply cooperation etc. From Germany or abroad. This doesn't exist. If you know any engineer who worked in an international company he will explain you that more detailed and it is better than in an public forum. And he will explain you too why Huwai would not be able to produce any smart phone whith out the tech suppliers from abroad.

[Pinetree]

If I recall correctly, on most subs, they can't be retrofitted without taking the pressure hull apart. If so, and if my house plumbing is anything to go by, good luck with that idea.   

Edited March 2, 2022 by Pinetree

[JamesR]

  On 3/2/2022 at 6:18 AM, Alavan said:

Seems you don’t understand sarcasm. 
You must have jokes in Germany, not?

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