News Forum - Asia News Today | Asian countries start ramping up pressure on Russia

[oldschooler]

9 hours ago, Guest1 said:

You have to take out, also, the Yugoslavia war. 

Which some say, is kind of the blue print for Putin and Ukraine:

The NATO moved in there, Kosovo, without an UN-Mandate. That came later.

And NATO just changed the direction of cruelty, from Milosovic killing Kosovar-Albanians, to Kosovo Albaniens killing/expelling the minority  of Serbia-Kosovars.

No Similarity between Ukraine & Balkans. None.

NATO Stopped Genocide in Kosovo. No specific “ UN mandate” needed.

[Guest1]

7 hours ago, oldschooler said:

No specific “ UN mandate” needed.

If that would be so easy, right? 

"NATO’s decision to engage in large-scale military action without prior Security Council authorization raised significant doubts about the status of the law governing the use of force and the viability of United Nations (“U.N.”) primacy in matters of international peace and security."

(Kosovo and the Limits of International Law David Wippman)

https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1813&context=ilj#:~:text=It is easy enough to,the Council's permanent mem- bers.

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, Guest1 said:

If that would be so easy, right? 

"NATO’s decision to engage in large-scale military action without prior Security Council authorization raised significant doubts about the status of the law governing the use of force and the viability of United Nations (“U.N.”) primacy in matters of international peace and security."

(Kosovo and the Limits of International Law David Wippman)

https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1813&context=ilj#:~:text=It is easy enough to,the Council's permanent mem- bers.

“ Significant Doubt” indeed ….

Afraid only “UN primacy” is in Corruption, “Diplomatic” Talking Clown Shows, Avoiding Action & Accommodating Murderous Tyrants. Requires Division into Free / Unfree Nations.

[oldschooler]

58 minutes ago, Transam said:

Off-topic but...

Many UK towns were blitzed by the Germans at the beginning of WW2, my mother was lucky, she had two houses flattened in London.

Ducking into doorways at night when bullets and spent bullets landed in the streets was another hazard.

So please don't move the goal posts.....

As you know, I’ve already tried to educate this character here on this very point, with historical facts, but just get ignorance & playground name-calling in return.

Once a certain narrative mindset is in place it can be hard to revert to an open objective mind, properly process facts and form a correct opinion.Speaking from personal experience.

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Transam said:

Off-topic but...

Many UK towns were blitzed by the Germans at the beginning of WW2, my mother was lucky, she had two houses flattened in London.

Ducking into doorways at night when bullets and spent bullets landed in the streets was another hazard.

So please don't move the goal posts.....

As you say, "off topic" but as you're a moderator presumably the subject needs clarifying and that's allowed hence your post, particularly as you invited @oldschooler to "just crack on".

I'm afraid you're badly wrong with your clarification as @oldschooler is with his "historical facts" - it's a subject I'm very well versed in as I used to give presentations on it every year and I'm still fully up to date with.  That isn't arguable "opinion" but easily verifiable fact.  I'm not trying to de-rail this thread or to take it off topic, but the complete opposite - these aren't "opinions" which as you say "are the nature of chat forums"  but are absolute facts, supported by unarguable definitive links.  Once we all know what we're talking about, hopefully we can return purely to the topic.

@JamesR's post that "there were no war crimes trials after the war relating to the bombing as it was deemed OK by the victors" was also incorrect but it wasn't because "it was deemed OK by the victors" but because it wasn't a war crime at the time as it didn't become one until much later under Article 51 of Protocol 1 of the Geneva Convention in 1977, which banned indiscriminate attacks on civilian populations and destruction of food, water, and other materials needed for survival, as well as under the Rome statute of the International Criminal Court in 1998 which banned any  "attack directed against any civilian population".

The German Blitz at the start of the war was aimed primarily at production centres and factories, with civilians simply being 'collateral damage', permissible under the Geneva Convention as was the German Rotterdam Blitz as it was in support of the German assault on the city.

The later allied response of carpet bombing under "Bomber" Harris was very different and was aimed specifically at killing, injuring and displacing the maximum number of civilians possible and causing the maximum suffering, nothing else, as he had no qualms at all in saying himself at the time and later:

"The aim of the Combined Bomber Offensive ... should be unambiguously stated [as] the destruction of German cities, the killing of German workers, and the disruption of civilised life throughout Germany ... the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories".

If there was any doubt, I was at a presentation he gave some 40 years ago / 30 years after the war, when he said the exact same thing (just before it became a war crime).

Interestingly America has yet to ratify the protocol so it isn't bound by it although it signed up to it, but more importantly Russia pulled out of that particular protocol three years ago, so it's no longer bound by it:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-putin-revokes-additional-protocol-to-geneva-conventions-related-to/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-warcrimes-convention-idUSKBN1WW2IN

http://en.kremlin.ru/acts/news/62025

... and although Ukraine is a signatory to the 1998 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, which also covers any  "attack directed against any civilian population", Russia is not and never has been a signatory to it so it has no obligation to observe it nor is it subject to its jurisdiction (Article 12):

https://www.icc-cpi.int/resource-library/documents/rs-eng.pdf.

Once again, I'm not trying to de-rail this thread or to take it off topic, but the complete opposite - these aren't "opinions" which as you say "are the nature of chat forums"  but are absolute facts, supported by unarguable definitive links, and again once we all know what we're talking about, hopefully we can return purely to the topic without digressing on this any further.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stardust]

14 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Many Free Asian countries that matter on the world stage ARE acting in concert with their NATO Allies, notably Japan, Australia, S. Korea, Taiwan, Sing. 
ASEAN Inconsequential Here as No Power. Other Asian countries are Enemy ( China/ NK) or “Neutral” ( Arabs) or Pro- Russia (India/Pak/ Iran / FSU Stans). 

Only 2 Asean countries stayed neutral all others voted against Russia. Yesterdays UN assembly showed the allies of this posters and what the world think about it. Sure North Korea will share their views and Eritrea or Belarus. Dictators love Dictators. What is astpuning that they still not realize what happen outside their bubble and paralell universe.

[Vigo]

23 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Those cities had numerous facilities supporting the Genocidal Nazi military machine whose purpose was to enslave/ murder the unconquered British & Russians after victory and eradicate all Jews / Others.

Railheads, Roads, Airfield, Factories, Storage, Workers; all deliberately / conveniently mixed within city civilian housing. Precision Bombing Tech. did Not Exist. Those Targets had to be Destroyed. Inevitable Collateral Damage was not by ANY standards a War Crime.

Remember Germany invented Total Terror War with the first city bombings of Guenica, Rotterdam, Warsaw, London, Coventry etc. and lines of escaping refugees. No War Crimes prosecuted against loser Germany for those.

UK / USA  were forced by the nature of the enemy to duplicate  & perfectTotal War ….and to finish It. 

Well said. The German civilian population was militarized at an early age, with the Hitler Youth manning the anti aircraft facilities, and those not fit for active service sent to work  prison and extermination  facilities.  If not serving in military, citizens served the war machinery. Big difference to Ukraine where civilian means civilian. I see yesterday that even children of special needs evacuated from Ukrainian orphanages were being targeted and terrified as they  fled to Poland. Words cannot describe my horror on that. This is something we do not even see in countries we call developing. Shameful.  I am not fan of Ukraine, but destroying hospitals, schools, museaums etc. serves no point except to say barbarian.

[JamesR]

13 hours ago, Transam said:

Off-topic but...

Many UK towns were blitzed by the Germans at the beginning of WW2, my mother was lucky, she had two houses flattened in London.

Ducking into doorways at night when bullets and spent bullets landed in the streets was another hazard.

So please don't move the goal posts.....

My dad was on anti aircraft guns in London and he nearly got flattened a few times.

The bombing of London was little compared to what happened in Germany, no goal posts involved. 

[JamesR]

12 hours ago, oldschooler said:

As you know, I’ve already tried to educate this character here on this very point, with historical facts, but just get ignorance & playground name-calling in return.

Once a certain narrative mindset is in place it can be hard to revert to an open objective mind, properly process facts and form a correct opinion.Speaking from personal experience.

[Tim_Melb]

On 3/3/2022 at 5:00 AM, oldschooler said:

Many Free Asian countries that matter on the world stage ARE acting in concert with their NATO Allies, notably Japan, Australia, S. Korea, Taiwan, Sing. 
ASEAN Inconsequential Here as No Power. Other Asian countries are Enemy ( China/ NK) or “Neutral” ( Arabs) or Pro- Russia (India/Pak/ Iran / FSU Stans). 

And the Philippines, don't forget the Philippines. Their response to the UN on this was awesome. 

https://dfa.gov.ph/dfa-news/statements-and-advisoriesupdate/30160-philippine-statement-at-the-emergency-special-session-of-the-un-general-assembly-on-ukraine

[KaptainRob]

From some reports I've read this morning, NZ and UK news sources, it's possible that Putin is a steroid junkie and could explain his madness in attacking Ukraine.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300532115/look-at-his-face-what-tack-to-take-if-russian-president-vladimir-putin-is-on-steroids?cid=PDM719971&bid=1442092558

[Thommo]

On 3/1/2022 at 8:26 PM, CamPat said:

Sounds they're in line with americans and aussies, brits. They , too fit the mold.

you forgot to mention my cousins across the ditch 

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, Transam said:

The Germans threw everything they had at bombing London, if they had more they would have used them.

Thank you, R.A.F.....

Bombing Quantity Irrelevant. Same Principle. Germans Started “ Total War” including Bombing Civilians. Allies Improved & Finished It. Yet somehow the democratic  liberating British were the “ bad guys”? (Off Topic ! )

[oldschooler]

8 hours ago, Tim_Melb said:

And the Philippines, don't forget the Philippines. Their response to the UN on this was awesome. 

https://dfa.gov.ph/dfa-news/statements-and-advisoriesupdate/30160-philippine-statement-at-the-emergency-special-session-of-the-un-general-assembly-on-ukraine

ASEAN Irrelevant on world stage.

Tourism, Retirement & Cheap Labour.

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, KaptainRob said:

From some reports I've read this morning, NZ and UK news sources, it's possible that Putin is a steroid junkie and could explain his madness in attacking Ukraine.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300532115/look-at-his-face-what-tack-to-take-if-russian-president-vladimir-putin-is-on-steroids?cid=PDM719971&bid=1442092558

Certainly not rational to believe Defensive NATO or Ukraine posed ANY risk of invasion to a nuclear- armed Russia, which appears as (absurd) Putin Pretext for invading Ukraine. 

[oldschooler]

4 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

ASEAN Irrelevant on world stage.

Tourism, Retirement & Cheap Labour.

Apologies, I should mention Rice, Rubber & Coffee exports to Developed NE Asia.

[oldschooler]

10 hours ago, JamesR said:

My dad was on anti aircraft guns in London and he nearly got flattened a few times.

The bombing of London was little compared to what happened in Germany, no goal posts involved. 

“Little” or not, U.K. certainly legally permitted & strategically required to respond …. with no limit. Or should they have “let it go” ?

[Stardust]

On 3/3/2022 at 1:00 AM, oldschooler said:

Many Free Asian countries that matter on the world stage ARE acting in concert with their NATO Allies, notably Japan, Australia, S. Korea, Taiwan, Sing. 
ASEAN Inconsequential Here as No Power. Other Asian countries are Enemy ( China/ NK) or “Neutral” ( Arabs) or Pro- Russia (India/Pak/ Iran / FSU Stans). 

Thailand ramping up pressure on Russia, too now. The Thai people don't like this agressions from Putin and killing civilians and children. This you could follow in the tv and social media and the pressure was too high to stay neutral.

[Freeduhdumb]

I had a great discussion with my immigration officer when doing my marriage visa renewal yesterday. He gets it. He wants Thailand to remain neutral and get America and Europe out of the region to stop all the trouble. And... we need Russian tourists to keep coming. 

[Stardust]

13 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

I had a great discussion with my immigration officer when doing my marriage visa renewal yesterday. He gets it. He wants Thailand to remain neutral and get America and Europe out of the region to stop all the trouble. And... we need Russian tourists to keep coming. 

I guess you not watched Thai tv and social media these days and what the Thais are thinking about it. I forgot you not understand any Thai. Thailand is against the russian agression and the neutrality is over this is very clear now. All my relatives ( Thai) and Thai friends a clearly against it and Thais who served are already joining Ukraine forces to help the Ukraine people and fight against these massmurderer who killing and bombing children, woman and civilians. I guess you are in the wrong country now.

[Stardust]

31 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

I had a great discussion with my immigration officer when doing my marriage visa renewal yesterday. He gets it. He wants Thailand to remain neutral and get America and Europe out of the region to stop all the trouble. And... we need Russian tourists to keep coming. 

By the way they pay annd fly with what? Tourists with no money for sure Thailand doesnt want that.

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, Stardust said:

I guess you not watched Thai tv and social media these days and what the Thais are thinking about it. I forgot you not understand any Thai. Thailand is against the russian agression and the neutrality is over this is very clear now. All my relatives ( Thai) and Thai friends a clearly against it and Thais who served are already joining Ukraine forces to help the Ukraine people and fight against these massmurderer who killing and bombing children, woman and civilians. I guess you are in the wrong country now.

Only the fellow corrupt tinpot dictators in non-entity govts in Venezuela, Belarus, North Korea & Burma are in support of Russia. 

[DiJoDavO]

Well, at least Putin made Covid disappear, isn't it? 

Maybe a stupid joke, but it's true. Is there still any news about Covid? I'm starting to miss it. 

[Stardust]

9 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Only the fellow corrupt tinpot dictators in non-entity govts in Venezuela, Belarus, North Korea & Burma are in support of Russia. 

Not Burma because their UN ambassador is from the former elected government and not from this illegal junta government. But sure this tin pot junta dictator would do so.

[astro]

On 3/4/2022 at 5:22 AM, oldschooler said:

“Little” or not, U.K. certainly legally permitted & strategically required to respond …. with no limit. Or should they have “let it go” ?

London Blitz: 1940-41

Carpet bombing of German cities: 1945

Neither a direct response nor strategically required.

But that's fine, because the civilised & democratic Britain has never committed any atrocities since 1645.