News Forum - Phuket police feel public backlash over arrest of foreign tourists in “scooter-gate”

[Stonker]

2 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

True - but in a true judicial system, people who are unwittingly tricked into committing a crime are deemed innocent unless it was reasonable to assume they knew the law - the perpetrators are the ones that are arrested and charged and fined. 

Where?

Name any country where such a judicial system exists, as it doesn't.

3 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

 They should have been arrested, charged and fined for riding dangerously and endangering others - but not for unregistered unlicensed uninsured etc.

There's no such offence as the vehicle was illegal. The only alternative offence would have been an offence related to causing a public danger, which is a criminal offence and would have not only given them a criminal record but made them liable to a prison sentence of up to seven or ten years.

That would have gone down really well with the outrage bus.

[Stonker]

15 minutes ago, Fortuner said:

Here we go again another tourist scam! This is a good example of how to ripoff tourist’s, charge the people behind the rental shop instead of harassing tourists.

The rental shop IS being charged (my bold):

"The police charged the tourists with alleged use of unregistered vehicles on roads and seized the scooters to take legal action against the entrepreneurs operating electric scooter rental business."

The only tourists stopped and fined were those driving dangerously, annoying others - how can that possibly be "a good example of how to ripoff tourist’s" when nobody driving safely and reasonably has been fined?

... and if you think they have, maybe you could give a link to any such report.

[francoa]

I came to Thailand, to check it out, planning purchasing elite visa and staying. I am here 4 months and the amount of foreigners abused by police, even on my own eyes on the streets….I decided to not do it. Unfortunately, the fact the country is run by an army is way too visible. I will be moving to Vietnam instead…bit more complicated to stay, but the police is correct to foreigners and me and family will feel safer there.

[Poolie]

24 minutes ago, francoa said:

I came to Thailand, to check it out, planning purchasing elite visa and staying. I am here 4 months and the amount of foreigners abused by police, even on my own eyes on the streets….I decided to not do it. Unfortunately, the fact the country is run by an army is way too visible. I will be moving to Vietnam instead…bit more complicated to stay, but the police is correct to foreigners and me and family will feel safer there.

Have a lovely time in Vietnam won't you? Byyeee!

[Stonker]

12 minutes ago, francoa said:

I came to Thailand, to check it out, planning purchasing elite visa and staying. I am here 4 months and the amount of foreigners abused by police, even on my own eyes on the streets….I decided to not do it. Unfortunately, the fact the country is run by an army is way too visible. I will be moving to Vietnam instead…bit more complicated to stay, but the police is correct to foreigners and me and family will feel safer there.

I'm not defending the police in any way, but I lived in / near Pattaya for several years and never had a problem; your complaint judging from your other posts seems to be that you're upset because you weren't allowed to break the law ("cops that hate me for staying out after 11"), and your interference wasn't appreciated ("me walking by, stopping to see what is going on immediately pissing them off and now I was the target of them too, just for looking").

If that's sufficient to make you go elsewhere and that's your priority, and you've tried the area which is well known to have the most corrupt police in Thailand, you're pobably making the right decision.  It's a serious problem, but for some of us it's less important than for others.

[francoa]

1 hour ago, Transam said:

"Feel safer"......Can you tell us what abuses you have seen towards tourists/farangs..? 

yes, feel safer..i have spent in vietnam several years time ago and I would never say a bad word about police approach towards foreigners. Thailand is famous for it and it just depends how unlucky you are. Be it abuse on the traffic stop, be it illegal search for the drugs just because they did not like something and many more. I saw few of those on my own eyes in past 4 months, 8 cops surrounding a well dressed white dude who was stopped on a bike. Abusing him, searching hos things to not find anything…me looking from 7m on the main street, just to observe their behaviour, immediately several came to me and started pushing me, asking for my passport, visas, because I dared watching…thai police is terrible. We have money, we pay on a spot, they like it. And I cant get rid of feeling they kinda hate us

[Janneman]

Tourists on Phuket should not rent e-scooters. Nor should they rent motorbikes, cars, bicycles. Taking a tuktuk or a taxi is much more comfortable.

[Stonker]

45 minutes ago, francoa said:

... a well dressed white dude ...

I think you've made the reason for your views pretty clear there

[LoongFred]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

I'm not defending the police in any way, but I lived in / near Pattaya for several years and never had a problem; your complaint judging from your other posts seems to be that you're upset because you weren't allowed to break the law ("cops that hate me for staying out after 11"), and your interference wasn't appreciated ("me walking by, stopping to see what is going on immediately pissing them off and now I was the target of them too, just for looking").

If that's sufficient to make you go elsewhere and that's your priority, and you've tried the area which is well known to have the most corrupt police in Thailand, you're pobably making the right decision.  It's a serious problem, but for some of us it's less important than for others.

There's something about you they don't like. Maybe how you dress or groom, or maybe your attitude. Also, could be the area your in. I've never had problems and I've been here along time.

[Stonker]

8 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

There's something about you they don't like. Maybe how you dress or groom, or maybe your attitude. Also, could be the area your in. I've never had problems and I've been here along time.

I think you may have quoted the wrong person there, @LoongFred!

I've never had problems either.

Edit: to be fair, I've been stopped by the police but never unduly or rudely.

[Stonker]

45 minutes ago, Transam said:

Our lad is a policeman, he doesn't hate anyone, he's a nice chap.....

But your lad probably knows that well dressed white dudes are speshul, and not to be pushed around like the local plebs.

[Fundok]

4 hours ago, Stonker said:

But that's why they were stopped and fined - what part of that can't you accept?

Fining them for driving an illegal vehicle was simply the easiest solution for all concerned, and had the lowest fixed penalty so it could be dealt with on the spot.  If they'd been charged with some other offence, such as endangering life or causing a public nuisance, they could have faced a hefty jail sentence instead and a prolonged court case.

Fining them for doing something which they could not have possibly anticipated to be illegal - that's what I find difficult to accept. Like, if there is a red light, no traffic, I cross the road, get caught and have to pay a fine - ok, I knew it was wrong, decided to give it a shot, and now I have to bear the consequences. But using a scooter which is not illegal elsewhere, and being fined, that's not fair and just in my eyes. At least, when I was in Phuket last month, there were no warning signs "scooter prohibited" anywhere, so how would a tourist possibly know?

[Poolie]

3 minutes ago, Fundok said:

Fining them for doing something which they could not have possibly anticipated to be illegal - that's what I find difficult to accept. Like, if there is a red light, no traffic, I cross the road, get caught and have to pay a fine - ok, I knew it was wrong, decided to give it a shot, and now I have to bear the consequences. But using a scooter which is not illegal elsewhere, and being fined, that's not fair and just in my eyes. At least, when I was in Phuket last month, there were no warning signs "scooter prohibited" anywhere, so how would a tourist possibly know?

I bet there was no signs saying ' no raping the local girls' either but you wouldn't have done that, even though for a small sum you could get one.

[Johnmc17]

5 hours ago, Stonker said:

Really?  You recognise them do you? Or was one of them your wife's cousin, who I recall you saying was also in the police?

Same police was a figure of speech which you obviously didn't or didn't want to understand and Yes we have family in the police in Phuket but actually dont call them every time i get stopped. 

[Jason]

Interesting that such a topic would evoke so many comments. The Thai Government is responsible for regulating what vehicles can drive on Thai roads. They are also responsible for administering the processes to regulate vehicles...registeration, insurance requirements, safety regulations for the operation of a motor vehicle and so on. So when a new player comes onto the market, like electric scooters, it's also the responsibility of government to set the framework for regulation, if seen as necessary. electric scooters didn't suddenly appear yesterday. The government has seen their rise and has had time to see and legislate. 

These ad hoc reactions are a sign that the authorities are behind the advent of electric scooters. Time to get up to speed!! laws should have been in place, well before now.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Fundok said:

Fining them for doing something which they could not have possibly anticipated to be illegal - that's what I find difficult to accept. Like, if there is a red light, no traffic, I cross the road, get caught and have to pay a fine - ok, I knew it was wrong, decided to give it a shot, and now I have to bear the consequences. But using a scooter which is not illegal elsewhere, and being fined, that's not fair and just in my eyes. At least, when I was in Phuket last month, there were no warning signs "scooter prohibited" anywhere, so how would a tourist possibly know?

They weren't stopped for driving illegally. Nobody was, nor apparently has anyone been since.

They were stopped because they were being stupid, annoying people and riding the scooters like idiots so people complained.

They were then fined for riding them illegally on the road because it's a fixed penalty notice and doesn't give them a criminal record.

The alternatives would have been to either do nothing and allow others to drive just as stupidly and dangerously, or to charge them with a criminal offence that would have meant a court case, a criminal record, and up to seven or ten years in jail.

As I asked before, what do you think is the better option?

If you know of another option I'd love to hear it but to me their solution was pragmatic and suited everyone - except the inevitable passengers jumping on the outrage bus.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Time to get up to speed!! laws should have been in place, well before now.

The laws ARE in place and have been for a long time.

Some people just don't like them.

[ThailandBob]

10 hours ago, JackMeOff said:

And yet the police ignore Thai citizens driving motorbikes without a license or helmet?

This is all too common around Thailand. But sure, crack down on the millions of unregulated eScooters.

[Tim]

And one more WTF news from Thailand... 

[HolyCowCm]

4 hours ago, francoa said:

I came to Thailand, to check it out, planning purchasing elite visa and staying. I am here 4 months and the amount of foreigners abused by police, even on my own eyes on the streets….I decided to not do it. Unfortunately, the fact the country is run by an army is way too visible. I will be moving to Vietnam instead…bit more complicated to stay, but the police is correct to foreigners and me and family will feel safer there.

Unless it has changed, then VN isn't visa sustainable for Visa

[Stonker]

3 hours ago, ThailandBob said:

This is all too common around Thailand. But sure, crack down on the millions of unregulated eScooters.

Nobody's 'cracking down' on e- scooters!!!

All they did was stop and fine a few people who were behaving like a-holes in the main road!!!

The rest is just the normal outrage bus nonsense.

[Stonker]

35 minutes ago, HolyCowCm said:

Unless it has changed, then VN isn't visa sustainable for Visa

Way off topic, but a cousin of mine's lived there for some time.

Way, way more difficult than Thailand long term, particularly for a family.

Each to their own, but it's very different to expat life in Thailand as most know it, and slightly more on topic I wouldn't say it's the easiest place to drive. 

I can't imagine driving round HCMC on an e-scooter and lasting more than two minutes.

[Marc26]

3 hours ago, Stonker said:

Way off topic, but a cousin of mine's lived there for some time.

Way, way more difficult than Thailand long term, particularly for a family.

Each to their own, but it's very different to expat life in Thailand as most know it, and slightly more on topic I wouldn't say it's the easiest place to drive. 

I can't imagine driving round HCMC on an e-scooter and lasting more than two minutes.

Not HCMC but I rented and drove a MB all week in Hanoi

 

Sitting at a red light with 300 other MB's was sort of a "how the hell did I end up here" awesome moment 

 

And I found VN drivers to be extremely polite

 

Also, to tie in another thread

We actually were on a mountains bike tour and drove back on the highway into the city and the drivers were again, very polite 

[Fundok]

11 hours ago, Stonker said:

They weren't stopped for driving illegally. Nobody was, nor apparently has anyone been since.

They were stopped because they were being stupid, annoying people and riding the scooters like idiots so people complained.

They were then fined for riding them illegally on the road because it's a fixed penalty notice and doesn't give them a criminal record.

The alternatives would have been to either do nothing and allow others to drive just as stupidly and dangerously, or to charge them with a criminal offence that would have meant a court case, a criminal record, and up to seven or ten years in jail.

As I asked before, what do you think is the better option?

If you know of another option I'd love to hear it but to me their solution was pragmatic and suited everyone - except the inevitable passengers jumping on the outrage bus.

Acting reckless - irrespective of the means of transport - deserves to be fined. Driving a scooter w/o knowing that this is illegal should not earn the drivers a fine but a warning. The ones to be fined are those renting out the scooters. That's how I would have handled it.

[HiuMak]

14 hours ago, Janneman said:

Tourists on Phuket should not rent e-scooters. Nor should they rent motorbikes, cars, bicycles. 

Why not? There is freedom and avoid scammer Taxi and Tuk Tuk.