News Forum - LATEST: Ukraine-Russia crisis, western leaders “convinced” Russia is ready to invade

[Poolie]

34 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Netherlands Court proved conclusively that incident caused by Russian equipment & personnel. Right down to serial numbers, operators, commanders, logistics, THE WORKS. Despite constant Russian attempted interference which obviously only added to the evidence against them !

Not quite.

[Poolie]

14 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Prefer gangster tyrant propaganda ? It’s western shared corroborated intel. coming from US / UK / NATO  / Poland.

So hard truth backed by telling satellite imagery inc. Field Hospitals never built for “exercises” only mass casualties. 

So was 'last Tuesday'

[Guest1]

1 hour ago, Stardust said:

Clearly you have no knowledge about Europe. The situation of today was because the people of their countries wanted it. It is clarly you dont know the history of Europe, especially eastern europe! There were revolutions by the people and the wall fall because of the people in east germany and their revolution, same romania, poland, etc. Same the baltic states. Zero knowledge about anything in Europe but commenting on it?! Did you ever been in Europe??? Did you ever read anything about the fall of the wall? For sure not! And not anything about Romania and all other eastern european countries. Have you been in school or they never teached european history in your school?

If you say so.

Just alone my passport is telling different.

I know, for example, that Gorbatschow would never have agreed to the reunion of Germany, if not Bush and Kohl promised, that NATO is not moving further east, as with the then Germany still in the NATO.

I also remember from school, how close the US was prepared, to go to war, 1962. With the USSR trying to plant Nukes in the front yard of the US, in Cuba.

Which would have been about the same reaction time, for a missile to Washington DC, like it would be from Ukraine to Moscow.

Oh, and I know also, that Kohl accepted the Euro, for the yes of France to the reunion. Because he needed the votes from the east germans. Without, he haven't had any chance, to win the 1990 election in Germany. This election got even officially delayed, moved to 2 or 3 month later, just for this to happen .

I am just not one who is saying, without looking at details, that "we in the west are the good ones, the one in the east are the bad ones".

Aside that the US is forcing the EU, to sanctions against Russia, but:

Since 2014, the import of oil and oil products, which the US bought from Russia, was growing from about 5 million barrel a month to around 18 million barrel a month. Sanctions , Europa has to do. The US is still in business.

Which on the other side is now a problem. How many billions of US dollar have gone to Ukraine? About 3 billion from the US, plus a couple if billions in free Investments? That'll could go down the drain. In case Putin is conquering the Ukraine.

Which are in my eyes a couple of billion reasons, usually, to agree at least for now, that NATO and EU is not offering anything to Ukraine. That would be a much better price to pay, for no war in Europe.

So, who do you think is the most against "no further east with NATO?

I give you a hint, it starts wit U and ends with SA.

The one country, very far away from any ground, they had war in the past 200 years

[Freeduhdumb]

This bull$$it western narrative is tiring... anyone who even takes a cursory look at this situation can easily understand the West is the aggressor here ever since the coup de tat of Kiev in 2014

[butterfly]

13 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

This bull$$it western narrative is tiring... anyone who even takes a cursory look at this situation can easily understand the West is the aggressor here ever since the coup de tat of Kiev in 2014

amen to that, it really feels like Europe didn't learn from the same mistakes they made in 1914 that started WW1

maybe Macron and Boris should take a crash course on 20th Century History,

Edited February 21, 2022 by butterfly

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, Poolie said:

So was 'last Tuesday'

Right. No interest in facts & truth only false narrative . got it.

[Guest1]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

USA will by then have wrecked Russian Economy be stopping access to Dollar & SWIFT trading .

You are aware, that the US is importing Oil and Oil products, from Russia, right? And that these imports did grow, from 2014 to now, from about 5 million barrel to just under 18 million barrel a month?

Do you think, the US is willing to give up on that? Which has, right now, a value of over 1.5 billion US.

I won't hold my breath about that. 

[oldschooler]

17 minutes ago, butterfly said:

amen to that, it really feels like Europe didn't learn from the same mistakes they made in 1914 that started WW1

maybe Macron and Boris should take a crash course on 20th Century History,

NATO doing their only job. Protecting Free Europe/ Detering Tyrants.

Satellite Imagery showing Russian Invasion Profiles is Action, Fact & Truth.

NATO states are free to position defensive weapons & troops on their land.

Putin Objects despite Doing Same. TOUGH.Putin lying again.NOBODY CARES.

NATO / Ukraine watching ONLY for Russias TRIGGER PULL. 

 

[oldschooler]

15 minutes ago, Guest1 said:

You are aware, that the US is importing Oil and Oil products, from Russia, right? And that these imports did grow, from 2014 to now, from about 5 million barrel to just under 18 million barrel a month?

Do you think, the US is willing to give up on that? Which has, right now, a value of over 1.5 billion US.

I won't hold my breath about that. 

US long self -sufficient in Energy. That 1.5 billion if true a convenience low cost purchase for US benefit & means literally nothing in US economy.

[oldschooler]

28 minutes ago, butterfly said:

amen to that, it really feels like Europe didn't learn from the same mistakes they made in 1914 that started WW1

maybe Macron and Boris should take a crash course on 20th Century History,

Drivel 

[Guest1]

6 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

NATO / Ukraine watching ONLY for Russias TRIGGER PULL. 

Seems a bit of a dejavu, here.

 

 

The 4 M-A-I-N Causes of World War One 

And yes, you are correct, the sat pictures are showing ever position of a tank or such.

Hiw do you interprete it, if some news are not coming with sat pictures as proof? Which happen relatively often, don't you think?

 

 

[oldschooler]

41 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

This bull$$it western narrative is tiring... anyone who even takes a cursory look at this situation can easily understand the West is the aggressor here ever since the coup de tat of Kiev in 2014

Satellite Imagery says opposite. But never mind the facts eh ? Dumb false anti- west pro -tyrant narrative is king so if ( when) Russia invades Ukraine it’s NOT THEIR FAULT ! right, got it ! Facts notwithstanding…….

[Poolie]

6 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Drivel 

I'm trying to remain polite but you're really pushing the envelope here. You just dont get it do you? I've never read a more dedicated pean to the western press than you, whereas I'm used to people who'll at least listen and consider. Doesnt WMDs and Gulf of Tonkin mean anything to you? Libya? Are you really this gullible?

Incredible.

[Guest1]

7 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

US long self -sufficient in Energy. That 1.5 billion if true a convenience low cost purchase for US benefit & means literally nothing in US economy.

No but is us supporting the Russian "Dictator".

A Country, which is suffering under sanctions, thst the US implemented, but almost onky european countries have to process!

And in case, you find the 18 million number, you can calculate the 1.5 billion in a month with a calculator, 18 million times Oil price. Which is konservativ math, since they not only importing oil, but also other oil products.

[oldschooler]

1 minute ago, Guest1 said:

Seems a bit of a dejavu, here.

The 4 M-A-I-N Causes of World War One 

And yes, you are correct, the sat pictures are showing ever position of a tank or such.

Hiw do you interprete it, if some news are not coming with sat pictures as proof? Which happen relatively often, don't you think?

Complete Gibberish . Again. These Satellite Pics needed only once for the public really. Russia has built FIELD HOSPITALS at the border which are only EVER built when mass casualties expected ( never erected for “ exercises”). Now here’s a simple question: What SOLE Event Here would result in Mass Casualties ? Yeeees that’s right ! ooohh you “don’t know”, really   ……so cue more idiotic deflecting drivel ……

[Tim_Melb]

5 hours ago, Stardust said:

For sure all evidences are there that the russian rebels made false flag attacks and the rebels are under control from russia. Also all evidendces are there that they shut down the Malaysian airline. You really under estimate the european and us security agencies. This area is now on 24 hours observation from the space and ground! And everuthing is very clear and all is recorded and all evidences are there. Don't guess or think the Nato or Europe forces dont watch!

Rubbish it very much unclear and the geographic location of the attack indicates that the Ukrainian right wing militias that operate in the area could equally be responsible for the "attack" further initial claims of it being an artillery strike are completely false the footage of the damage clearly shows no evidence of artillery damage. 

[MikeEllen]

On 2/20/2022 at 9:03 AM, francoa said:

First of all, you named it…it would be stupid. Putin is not planning taking over Ukraine. He is not stupid u know.

That also answers the other argument you have, majority of forces on one border. It is not an issue because he does not go for a war.

But even if he went for a war, noone is going to fight Russia even if all soldiers leave for Ukraine.

And lastly, once you have thousands nukes, it does not matter hoe many soliders are where. Nukes take care of the fact thay noone goes against you

Putin will invade and take Ukraine if he can. But will he? Hopefully not, now that the entire world knows his plan.

 

Is putin stupid? A bit yes, if he thinks he will get away with it. His behaviour is also ensuring that a large amount of military hardware will be lined up all along his borders, including eventually where his new mate is in China, once China realises that being allied with putin won't help its cause.

 

Putin is most definitely mad as well, paranoid and mad. Nobody outside wants his country. Nobody threatens him inside his own country, because he has them poisoned or imprisoned, or both. And nobody threatens him outside his country, despite what he believes. 

 

I feel sorry for the Russian people, they don't deserve the discredit he brings to their country. 

 

[oldschooler]

6 minutes ago, Poolie said:

I'm trying to remain polite but you're really pushing the envelope here. You just dont get it do you? I've never read a more dedicated pean to the western press than you, whereas I'm used to people who'll at least listen and consider. Doesnt WMDs and Gulf of Tonkin mean anything to you? Libya? Are you really this gullible?

Incredible.

You don’t address facts. just bleat on deflecting about the “ media”. subject is Ukraine … Now . Not Gulf or Vietnam Wars which have no bearing here & now. 
 

 

8 minutes ago, Guest1 said:

No but is us supporting the Russian "Dictator".

A Country, which is suffering under sanctions, thst the US implemented, but almost onky european countries have to process!

And in case, you find the 18 million number, you can calculate the 1.5 billion in a month with a calculator, 18 million times Oil price. Which is konservativ math, since they not only importing oil, but also other oil products.

Nothing to do with subject. satellite imagery clearly shows Russia perfectly poised to invade Ukraine. Nothing else matters on this right now. 

[Tim_Melb]

5 hours ago, Stardust said:

Best tank of the world still is the german leopard and as that listed in the worlds best tanks.

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/top_10_main_battle_tanks.htm

https://www.army-technology.com/features/feature-the-worlds-top-10-main-battle-tanks/

Also complete rubbish the Leopard was a good economic tool in I day but it's so far out of date now it's laughable. 

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, Guest1 said:

If you say so.

Just alone my passport is telling different.

I know, for example, that Gorbatschow would never have agreed to the reunion of Germany, if not Bush and Kohl promised, that NATO is not moving further east, as with the then Germany still in the NATO.

I also remember from school, how close the US was prepared, to go to war, 1962. With the USSR trying to plant Nukes in the front yard of the US, in Cuba.

Which would have been about the same reaction time, for a missile to Washington DC, like it would be from Ukraine to Moscow.

Oh, and I know also, that Kohl accepted the Euro, for the yes of France to the reunion. Because he needed the votes from the east germans. Without, he haven't had any chance, to win the 1990 election in Germany. This election got even officially delayed, moved to 2 or 3 month later, just for this to happen .

I am just not one who is saying, without looking at details, that "we in the west are the good ones, the one in the east are the bad ones".

Aside that the US is forcing the EU, to sanctions against Russia, but:

Since 2014, the import of oil and oil products, which the US bought from Russia, was growing from about 5 million barrel a month to around 18 million barrel a month. Sanctions , Europa has to do. The US is still in business.

Which on the other side is now a problem. How many billions of US dollar have gone to Ukraine? About 3 billion from the US, plus a couple if billions in free Investments? That'll could go down the drain. In case Putin is conquering the Ukraine.

Which are in my eyes a couple of billion reasons, usually, to agree at least for now, that NATO and EU is not offering anything to Ukraine. That would be a much better price to pay, for no war in Europe.

So, who do you think is the most against "no further east with NATO?

I give you a hint, it starts wit U and ends with SA.

The one country, very far away from any ground, they had war in the past 200 years

For sure you were not in Germany at this time or in amy museum for example in Berlin. It were the people of east germany who were all in the streets who made this revolution and not Gorbatchow. Gorbatchow warned him before that this will happen if there is no change. And the people in east and west germany came with hammers and all kind of tools who break the wall down and not any politician. Btw I was at time there and I experienced that time the revolutions not only in Germany. And thats what all history books, historians say and everybody in europe knows. For sure you are not from continental europe, 100% not, because everybody knows or experienced this history!

[oldschooler]

1 minute ago, Tim_Melb said:

Rubbish it very much unclear and the geographic location of the attack indicates that the Ukrainian right wing militias that operate in the area could equally be responsible for the "attack" further initial claims of it being an artillery strike are completely false the footage of the damage clearly shows no evidence of artillery damage. 

Once again; satellite imagery clearly & factually shows Russia perfectly poised to invade Ukraine. Russia pre- invasion playbook with false flag incidents already exposed. NOTHING else matters. WHY on earth would pro- Ukraine forces donANYTHING to provoke Russia !! Just what Russia is looking for !

[Freeduhdumb]

5 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

You don’t address facts. just bleat on deflecting about the “ media”. subject is Ukraine … Now . Not Gulf or Vietnam Wars which have no bearing here & now. 
 

Nothing to do with subject. satellite imagery clearly shows Russia perfectly poised to invade Ukraine. Nothing else matters on this right now. 

The west invaded Ukraine in 2014. Full stop. The invasion has already occurred. 

[Dedinbed]

21 hours ago, Tim_Melb said:

Your assessment of the T34 is total rubbish. It's only significant flaw was it's original 76mm armament which was a peashooter

Indeed the Germans were surprised by the T34 and it's fire power in the early mths of Barbarossa and it did prove deadly against the Panzer III's and early IV's in the opening battles but that did not stop them destroying 2300 of the 3000 made in 1941 and once the Panzer IV F2 with a high velocity 75 mm cannon started arriving in Russia early 1942 any advantage the 34's gun had evaporated as the F2 could outrange it with greater accuracy and higher velocity .. and that's without the appearance of the Tiger with it's greater range and later still the Panther and various other tank destroyers introduced into the conflict by the Germans .. The T34 has a place in history as the most produced tank of the war and one that is synonymous with struggle to boot the Germans out of Russia but that did not make it the best tank by a long way ..  some serious design flaws of the T34/76 were :

 

Christie suspension system meant a small narrow crew compartment of driver , machine gunner , loader and commander only and was also the storage area for the ammunition with catastrophic effects when it was penetrated by enemy fire .. the commander also had to double as the main gunner ..

appaling vision when buttoned down to go into battle with the driver often leaving the front hatch open to see where he was going and no turret cupola or vision blocks meant the commander had to put his head out of the hatch to see what was going on ..

no fume extraction from the gun breech meant the thing filled with fumes from firing the main and bow machine gun and was another reason the driver kept his hatch open ..

sponson fuel tanks on either side of the hull beneath the thinner armour plate so it would go up like a bonfire when hit side on ..

Russian tank doctrine dictated only the commander's tank was fitted with a radio meaning unbelievably the commander had to convey orders to the rest of the unit out of the turret via flags making him a prime target for snipers and the tank itself extra attention from anti tank guns having been identified by the radio aerial ..

turret too far forward on the hull meant the gun had to be at max' elevation when crossing ditches and crater's or it had a habit of digging into the ground in front of the tank rendering it then useless .. 

a prehistoric gearbox based on a tractor design that failed so often they carried a spare into battle .. 

manufacturing flaws included over hardening of the steel used in the front glacis plate resulting in spalling ( red hot flakes of metal ) flying about inside the tank when the glacis was hit by a round particularly high explosive rounds .. and when the Germans went over to high velocity armour piercing rounds the glacis plate would quite often shatter as the projectile passed through as brittleness was a consequence of the hardening process ..

badly welded around the joints of the front and side armour which not only compromised the integrity of the armour on top of above but also allow water in to play havoc with the electrics and burning petrol in if Molotov cocktails were thrown at it .. 

Russian arms manufacturing at that time was not concerned with quality and tolerances as much as were the Germans .. The Russians wanted as many tanks built as quickly as possible but there was an inevitable compromise on the reliability and functionality of the finished article when such an approach was used .. 

Ferdinand Porsche was involved in a variation of the Tiger tank ( VK 30.01) but I am unaware of any involvement in the Panther that was jointly designed and built by Daimler Benz and MAN .. do you have any more on that .. 

 

 

[Freeduhdumb]

25 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Satellite Imagery says opposite. But never mind the facts eh ? Dumb false anti- west pro -tyrant narrative is king so if ( when) Russia invades Ukraine it’s NOT THEIR FAULT ! right, got it ! Facts notwithstanding…….

The invasion occurred in 2014. 

[Stardust]

4 minutes ago, Tim_Melb said:

Rubbish it very much unclear and the geographic location of the attack indicates that the Ukrainian right wing militias that operate in the area could equally be responsible for the "attack" further initial claims of it being an artillery strike are completely false the footage of the damage clearly shows no evidence of artillery damage. 

You wanna tell us you know more then all the iteligent services in Europe/Nato inclusive the observer on the ground and all the satellites they have. Maybe Clowns will believe such nonsense. All the european armies, countries , Nato, USA have their eys on it and you really think you know it better? Nobody who served knows whats going on and how they observe. BTW my generation had to serve by mandate ( even with 2 passports) and what do you think all in europe were trained?!