Explosions In Ukraine.....

[Lyp14 [ctxa]]

7 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

We will put you down as a "probably no" then. 

Its a good job that when its happened before in Europe there were people who did enlist otherwise you Europeans would all still be part of the third Reich right now. 

Nope, us Spaniards never fought in neither world war, so we didn’t have to enlist even back then :) 

But still, the Third Reich is a different matter cuz it would affect us all sooner or later. Ukraine, they were part of the Soviet Union (Russia) for god knows how many years and it had nothing to do with us anyway…

… Like I said, I wish they don’t get invaded, if anything for the many people that will die in the invasion… but even if they got invaded, for us it’s definitely not worth getting killed over it… hopefully fellow Europeans will think the same and tell the US to fight it themselves.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Lyp14 [ctxa]

[KRLMRX]

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Putin couldn’t care less about the Russian people except to continue to prop up his oligarchy tyranny …. and 200 billion personal fortune stolen from them.

agree.

But how is Putin's oligarchic tyranny different from Wall Street's oligarchic tyranny?

By the way, how much did they steal?

[oldschooler]

8 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

agree.

But how is Putin's oligarchic tyranny different from Wall Street's oligarchic tyranny?

By the way, how much did they steal?

Can’t really help you if you equate (flawed ) western democracy with brutal tyranny.back to basics for you in forms of government.

[Rookiescot]

15 minutes ago, Lyp14 [ctxa] said:

Nope, us Spaniards never fought in neither world war, so we didn’t have to enlist even back then :) 

But still, the Third Reich is a different matter cuz it would affect us all sooner or later. Ukraine, they were part of the Soviet Union (Russia) for god knows how many years and it had nothing to do with us anyway…

… Like I said, I wish they don’t get invaded, if anything for the many people that will die in the invasion… but even if they got invaded, for us it’s definitely not worth getting killed over it… hopefully fellow Europeans will think the same and tell the US to fight it themselves.

Yeah Spains role in the second world war is somewhat embarrassing given the "Blue Division". 

[oldschooler]

15 minutes ago, Lyp14 [ctxa] said:

Nope, us Spaniards never fought in neither world war, so we didn’t have to enlist even back then :) 

But still, the Third Reich is a different matter cuz it would affect us all sooner or later. Ukraine, they were part of the Soviet Union (Russia) for god knows how many years and it had nothing to do with us anyway…

… Like I said, I wish they don’t get invaded, if anything for the many people that will die in the invasion… but even if they got invaded, for us it’s definitely not worth getting killed over it… hopefully fellow Europeans will think the same and tell the US to fight it themselves.

You have zero concept of NATO and how they defend against tyranny.

Never mind. Spain only democratic / developed since 1982 .You’re excused. 

[Lyp14 [ctxa]]

10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Yeah Spains role in the second world war is somewhat embarrassing given the "Blue Division". 

*Removed* the blue division were volunteers supporters of Hitler (mind you 10,000 Spaniards defeated 40,000 Russians) :P 

There were also many volunteers fighting with the allies. 
 

And the most important of all is that the government took no sides. So many crippled American and British planes landed in Spain This was crucial.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Faraday
Bad language removed

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, Lyp14 [ctxa] said:

*Removed*the blue division were volunteers supporters of Hitler (mind you 10,000 Spaniards defeated 40,000 Russians) :P 

There were also many volunteers fighting with the allies. 
 

And the most important of all is that the government took no sides. So many crippled American and British planes landed in Spain This was crucial.

Yeah that "neutrality" came at a cost though didnt it. Unable to join the United Nations until the 1950's because of its support for Nazi Germany. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Faraday
Word removed that was present in quote

[dj230]

I don't really see why Russia is doing this, they're in a lose-lose situation and the US is in a win-win situation at the moment. 

If Russia invades Ukraine, the US and NATO can sanction Russia, a global superpower and weaken their economy. I don't think the US cares if Russia invades, Ukraine isn't part a of NATO anyways. 

 

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, dj230 said:

I don't really see why Russia is doing this, they're in a lose-lose situation and the US is in a win-win situation at the moment. 

If Russia invades Ukraine, the US and NATO can sanction Russia, a global superpower and weaken their economy. I don't think the US cares if Russia invades, Ukraine isn't part a of NATO anyways. 

Absolutely correct. A war in Ukraine is a quagmire for Russia. Sanctions destroying the economy and Putins personal wealth. Putin has painted himself into a corner here.

The west will donate any and all equipment the Ukrainians need.

[oldschooler]

7 hours ago, Poolie said:

China has a 4000km+ border with Russia. Plenty of exports go across there. 58bn in value.

So what ? Subject is Ukraine / NATO. 
 

[Lyp14 [ctxa]]

33 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Yeah that "neutrality" came at a cost though didnt it. Unable to join the United Nations until the 1950's because of its support for Nazi Germany. 

Well at the end of the day it was a fascist regime back there, so that didn't go well with others. But unlike Germany, Japan, Italy, etc,..  we never officially caused any sort of harm to any other country or any group of people...

The UN question was a question of American interests only; when the Americans decided that their next enemy were the Soviets, only then they remembered Spain and Franco's regime were / had been pretty efficient at fighting the Russians (Spanish Civil War)... and started being good to us. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Lyp14 [ctxa]

[Rookiescot]

Just now, oldschooler said:

So what ? Subject is Ukraine / NATO. 
 

Been plenty of border disputes between them as well.

Still this week they are the bestest of mates because it suits their purposes.

China, Russia, both have massive armies on paper but thats it. The vast majority of them are poorly equipped, trained and motivated.

Saddam Husain had the 4th largest army in the world. Got wrecked within a week by professional western armies. 

[Poolie]

9 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

So what ? Subject is Ukraine / NATO. 
 

It was in response to your assertions on this very thread this morning. Nice evasiveness though.

[oldschooler]

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Been plenty of border disputes between them as well.

Still this week they are the bestest of mates because it suits their purposes.

China, Russia, both have massive armies on paper but thats it. The vast majority of them are poorly equipped, trained and motivated.

Saddam Husain had the 4th largest army in the world. Got wrecked within a week by professional western armies. 

Tyranny gravitates to tyranny. Tyranny the enemy of freedom -quality -effectiveness. One free trained well motivated / equipped volunteer professional soldier can beat twenty untrained slave conscripts. Tyranny loves Quantity & Slave Soldiers which in modern warfare are clearly quite useless.

 

[oldschooler]

2 minutes ago, Poolie said:

It was in response to your assertions on this very thread this morning. Nice evasiveness though.

Mentioning your pals Xi & CCP in brackets was I when discussing Ukraine ? 
but Russia / China border trade quite irrelevant here…..

[BigHewer]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

Stock markets well overdue for another massive correction in any case

So what? What’s your point? That makes it okay or irrelevant?

[BigHewer]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

NATO NOT Appeasing Russia….. NATO are Deterring Russia, Ie. doing their job and doing it well. 

That’s laughable. What’s the difference between “NOT appeasing” and sitting on your hands? 

Fine though. Let’s see how in the mood NATO is to “deter” when the tanks roll in. 

[Rookiescot]

25 minutes ago, Lyp14 [ctxa] said:

Well at the end of the day it was a fascist regime back there, so that didn't go well with others. But unlike Germany, Japan, Italy, etc,..  we never officially caused any sort of harm to any other country or any group of people...

The UN question was a question of American interests only; when the Americans decided that their next enemy were the Soviets, only then they remembered Spain and Franco's regime were / had been pretty efficient at fighting the Russians (Spanish Civil War)... and started being good to us. 

Where on earth do you read your history?

The reason Franco's Spain tried to walk that narrow path of "neutrality" was because it depended on American imports. Something the USA could have stopped at any time. 

Plus there was the fact that Spain was in no way, shape or form able to defend its overseas territories. 

Apart from the Blue Brigade, Spain was a complete irrelevance during WW2 because it was simply not strong enough to make a difference. It still is.

So from an international perspective yeah we get it. You want to remain neutral and leave the heavy lifting to other countries. 

 

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, BigHewer said:

That’s laughable. What’s the difference between “NOT appeasing” and sitting on your hands? 

Fine though. Let’s see how in the mood NATO is to “deter” when the tanks roll in. 

Ukraine is not a NATO member so what the west can do is limited. Its against the rules.

Sanctions though against Russia and Putin will be crippling. Even during the cold war the US used to sell the Soviets wheat (at a loss) simply because it couldnt feed itself.

Its still the same. If that wheat stopped tomorrow what happens to Russia? The last time Russians had no bread it kinda ended badly for the guys in charge. 

Especially when they ran out of cake 

[Lyp14 [ctxa]]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Where on earth do you read your history?

The reason Franco's Spain tried to walk that narrow path of "neutrality" was because it depended on American imports. Something the USA could have stopped at any time. 

Plus there was the fact that Spain was in no way, shape or form able to defend its overseas territories. 

Apart from the Blue Brigade, Spain was a complete irrelevance during WW2 because it was simply not strong enough to make a difference. It still is.

So from an international perspective yeah we get it. You want to remain neutral and leave the heavy lifting to other countries. 

We barely had any American imports after WW2, so I guess in reality we didn't depend on them that much. 

And yes we were in no shape or form to fight in WW2. But we defeated the Soviet Union in the Civil War, what an embarrassment it was for the Russians. 

 

Also we couldn't care less about wars, the only real threat we have is Morocco, and we would crush them in days just by air superiority alone... There was a project to get nuclear weapons back in the 50s, but it was abandoned, simply because it would put us in a position of more relevance and possibly a target by bigger nuclear powers... 

It was an abomination that we joined the Americans and the British in the invasion of Iraq, contributing that many troops in the process, which then caused a lot of civilian deaths in Madrid (2004 Train bombings) from a terrorist attack that could have been avoided had we not gone to war. I hope the politicians have learned this lesson and won't do the same now with the Russians. 

So long as they don't come for us, there's no reason to spill our blood. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Lyp14 [ctxa]

[Rookiescot]

10 minutes ago, Lyp14 [ctxa] said:

We barely had any American imports after WW2, so I guess in reality we didn't depend on them that much. 

And yes we were in no shape or form to fight in WW2. But we defeated the Soviet Union in the Civil War, what an embarrassment it was for the Russians. 

Also we couldn't care less about wars, the only real threat we have is Morocco, and we would crush them in days just by air superiority alone... There was a project to get nuclear weapons back in the 50s, but it was abandoned, simply because it would put us in a position of more relevance and possibly a target by bigger nuclear powers... 

It was an abomination that we joined the Americans and the British in the invasion of Iraq, contributing that many troops in the process, which then caused a lot of civilian deaths in Madrid (2004 Train bombings) from a terrorist attack that could have been avoided had we not gone to war. I hope the politicians have learned this lesson and won't do the same now with the Russians. 

So long as they don't come for us, there's no reason to spill our blood. 

You sent 500 troops.

Gee thanks.

How many tanks? How many aircraft? How many infantry?

Like I said, your passivism makes no difference to the wider world.

[BigHewer]

10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Sanctions though against Russia and Putin will be crippling. Even during the cold war the US used to sell the Soviets wheat (at a loss) simply because it couldnt feed itself.

Agreed. We (the broader “we”) will know why future sanctions will have been imposed.… the locals in Russia will be spoon fed a load of old tosh though and blame America. So no bad ending for the Grand Thug. 

 

[Lyp14 [ctxa]]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

You sent 500 troops.

Gee thanks.

How many tanks? How many aircraft? How many infantry?

Like I said, your passivism makes no difference to the wider world.

No, it was 1300, but 1300 too many. They served no purpose other than bringing a terrorist attack to our soil. 

Look, if Russia invades Ukraine, the West can and probably should strangle them economically, with sanctions. 

But I believe Ukraine is insignificant to larger part of Western countries including us, the UK, the US etc..., so as to have our people dying fighting for the Ukrainians and risking a larger conflict with Russia (possibly nuclear).

 

Still, I am quite sure this is just muscle flexing from Putin and Biden and in the end, nothing will happen. Touching wood that Im right. 

[Poolie]

52 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Mentioning your pals Xi & CCP in brackets was I when discussing Ukraine ? 
but Russia / China border trade quite irrelevant here…..

Actually YOU mentioned them....perhaps your memory is slipping?

[KRLMRX]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

Can’t really help you if you equate (flawed ) western democracy with brutal tyranny.back to basics for you in forms of government.

it is in the basic form of government that the crux of the matter lies.  this (basic form) is the same in Russia and in the West.  the differences are in the shape and length of the ears.  in Russia, these ears are more similar to those of a donkey, in the West they are noticeably less.  but those are donkey ears.  and yet the main question - in whose interests is this war?  and when you think and honestly answer this question, you will undoubtedly come to the conclusion that this war is definitely not in the interests of the peoples of Russia, Ukraine, Europe and America.