Explosions In Ukraine.....

[butterfly]

The US is playing a dangerous game trying to poke fun at the Great Bear of Europe, aka Russia

Why is the EU taking orders from NATO and the US command?

we should integrate Russia in our own European defense initiative and get rid of that stupid NATO thing

*Inflammatory sentence deleted, by moderator*

 

[butterfly]

5 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Think of this issue as the Bay of Pigs.  Unless NATO backs down and agrees to withdraw ballistic missile sites in the bordering NATO countries to Russia, then Russia will invade and destroy them itself.  If anyone thinks that this is about big bad Putin trying to make USSR again, then you are very misinformed - so go and get informed.  

For a start look at how NATO has for many decades promised not to expand into countries that border Russia.  The look at how NATO orchestrated the coup against the President of Ukraine in 2014 and the Civil War that has been going on ever since.  The peoples of Eastern Ukraine (the ousted President was one) do not want to be a part of NATO/West - they are Russians by descent and want to be a part of Russia. Crimea was annexed in response to both NATO expansions and the people voting to leave.

Unless NATO/West wants a war (maybe they do) they must back down.  Putin is not going to back down - he is behaving very similar to like Kennedy did - take those missiles away or we will invade and destroy them.

amen to that :)

 

[SnapDragon]

5 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

Have they both stopped transmitting?  They are both available on the net - in Thailand anyway.

You are right there Mr Bluesofa. No problem getting them on the www. RT in Germany was is German I do believe.

I like some of the RT presenters. Max Keiser and George Galloway right up there. Tony Gosling on Press TV. More likely to get the truth with them than the BBC or CNN.

[Freeduhdumb]

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Disagree with nearly all above mate, sorry. NATO reacting perfectly and only defensively against monstrous aggressive provocation by Putin.NATO not in the business of “backing down” under threat! Most powerful & effective military alliance around, dwarfing Russia. 
 

NATO has expanded only at the will of Free Nations rightly fearful of Putins Unfree Russia. If Russia were Free, NATO need not exist except to counter other large evil threats like CCP, with our Pacific Allies.
 

Ukranians removed pro- Russian president. no evidence of western assistance. but so what if there was ? Dictators using dirty tricks all the time. So do democracies. Democracies are duty bound to assist & defend other democracies against tyranny, to extent possible. No armed boots on ground in  Ukraine. Just intel  supplies, sanctions type defensive support. Perfectly Fine.

Ukraine are irreversiblely Western- looking. But will never join NATO (or EU) as too corrupt, lacks border control and would be vetoed by half of NATO !
NATO will, on free principles, never withdraw forces from any member countries. Putin knows all this. Putin wants Ukraine as Buffer State controlled by him. Few Russian- speaking Ukrainians are east- looking. They are west- looking, wanting freedom, democracy &  capitalism.  As usual, the aggressive violent armed pro- Putin minority carry the day there in Luhansk & Donets …just like radical Islam, the moderate reasonable majority are irrelevant. 

Annexing  Crimea was a criminal act like Hitler annexing Sudetenland. Putin’s  fascist nonsense about “ protecting” Russians in other countries is ludicrous Move to Russia ! Oh wait …… no work, poverty, corruption …….

Regretably, Putin will invade any day now. HE should back down but tyrants can’t do that without appearing weak and losing power …..Saddam etc.

I don't know where you've gotten your information... you're entirely and completely mis-informed. 

[JohninDublin]

4 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

General Patton always had it right from the get go. Too bad we can't bring him back to deal with them.

I'm not too sure that Patton was far wrong in his thinking. It's difficult for me to sometimes rationalise why Britain went to war in defence of Poland, when Churchill was only too happy to hand the Poles and most of E. Europe over to Russia at the end of it all. 

[BigHewer]

7 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

As for Crimea, there are echoes of 1938 when Hitler marched into the Sudetenland to purportedly protect ethnic Germans. That was the same excuse given by Putin to invade the Crimea.

I am seeing similar echoes too, John. Also similar patterns of appeasement. The invasion is coming soon. They will provoke a response to justify an invasion.

It’s all about hamstringing the prosperity of the liberal democracies. The “siege mentality”. The approach of protesting (lamenting?) utter mediocrity by saying everyone is against us.

Stocks will take a big hit. Worldwide economic growth will take a hit. Personally, that hits my hip pocket, but on a broader scale it evens the playing field for the geo-economic “LOSERS”. 

 I could go on and on but perhaps I shouldn’t because I WILL offend people.

 

 

[JohninDublin]

19 minutes ago, BigHewer said:

I am seeing similar echoes too, John. Also similar patterns of appeasement. The invasion is coming soon. They will provoke a response to justify an invasion.

It’s all about hamstringing the prosperity of the liberal democracies. The “siege mentality”. The approach of protesting (lamenting?) utter mediocrity by saying everyone is against us.

Stocks will take a big hit. Worldwide economic growth will take a hit. Personally, that hits my hip pocket, but on a broader scale it evens the playing field for the geo-economic “LOSERS”. 

 I could go on and on but perhaps I shouldn’t because I WILL offend people.

Yesterday, Gold was at an 8 month high, which is a sign of how seriously the markets are taking this. There is an old adage among investors, "In times of crisis, invest 10% of your wealth in Gold and hope to be wrong".

[Lyp14 [ctxa]]

Look, I don’t wish for the Russians to invade Ukraine using force. But as a European, I don’t understand why people from my country should die fighting a war which has very little to do with us.

Needless to say, if the defense of Ukraine depended on me enlisting to go to that war, they’d be waiting forever. 

[HolyCowCm]

51 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

I'm not too sure that Patton was far wrong in his thinking. It's difficult for me to sometimes rationalise why Britain went to war in defence of Poland, when Churchill was only too happy to hand the Poles and most of E. Europe over to Russia at the end of it all. 

Judging by what is and has happened he seemed to be definitely on target thinking. What messed up state of affairs our world is currently in now. 

[BigHewer]

2 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

Yesterday, Gold was at an 8 month high, which is a sign of how seriously the markets are taking this. There is an old adage among investors, "In times of crisis, invest 10% of your wealth in Gold and hope to be wrong".

Yes, completely agreed. Gold is up and that’s a reflection of sentiment. Of course (of course!) US stocks will take a hit and recover.  Bad stuff happens and good things follow. Obviously I’m very upset about the timing of this, especially with the light on the horizon.

But if I were a despotic thug, I would want to strike while the iron is hot. So I empathize on some level. No point in invading when a post-Covid worldwide economic recovery is underway.

[LoongFred]

Another thing on the horizon is the fed interest rate. When  rates go up foreign cash seems to flow to the US to take advantage. Other countries need to follow suit to counter the outflow of money. This results in higher interest rates. It also effects foreign exchange rates. 

[oldschooler]

4 hours ago, snapdragon said:

The Germans want Russian gas. The US don't want them to buy. Have our goods at double the price; why don't you.

The days of US and its poodles running the world are over. It's a last desperate show of bravado, while their own infrastructure back home is crumpling.

Germans stupidly went “ green” and rejected nuclear so now dependent on imported gas ( unlike France whose power supply is 70% nuclear) but unclear why they can’t get it from Norway which supplies UK ( who also stupidly abandoned nuclear power ) or why Germany rejected fixed price contracts and went open market on pricing. Insane strategic “ >unidentified slang term<” blunders but NOTHING to do with USA.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, snapdragon said:

You are right there Mr Bluesofa. No problem getting them on the www. RT in Germany was is German I do believe.

I like some of the RT presenters. Max Keiser and George Galloway right up there. Tony Gosling on Press TV. More likely to get the truth with them than the BBC or CNN.

Gorgeous George is definitely right up there. 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, BigHewer said:

I am seeing similar echoes too, John. Also similar patterns of appeasement. The invasion is coming soon. They will provoke a response to justify an invasion.

It’s all about hamstringing the prosperity of the liberal democracies. The “siege mentality”. The approach of protesting (lamenting?) utter mediocrity by saying everyone is against us.

Stocks will take a big hit. Worldwide economic growth will take a hit. Personally, that hits my hip pocket, but on a broader scale it evens the playing field for the geo-economic “LOSERS”. 

 I could go on and on but perhaps I shouldn’t because I WILL offend people.

NATO NOT Appeasing Russia….. NATO are Deterring Russia, Ie. doing their job and doing it well. 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, BigHewer said:

I am seeing similar echoes too, John. Also similar patterns of appeasement. The invasion is coming soon. They will provoke a response to justify an invasion.

It’s all about hamstringing the prosperity of the liberal democracies. The “siege mentality”. The approach of protesting (lamenting?) utter mediocrity by saying everyone is against us.

Stocks will take a big hit. Worldwide economic growth will take a hit. Personally, that hits my hip pocket, but on a broader scale it evens the playing field for the geo-economic “LOSERS”. 

 I could go on and on but perhaps I shouldn’t because I WILL offend people.

Go on Big H. Let it rip.

Nothing wrong with a good old rant now and again. 

[oldschooler]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Gorgeous George is definitely right up there. 

RT do have some decent fair reports. They have a clear pro- Russia agenda but that’s obvious & fine. Same with conservative agenda GB News & Fox News. CNN sometimes good but dishonest by claiming impartiality & no agenda. 

[oldschooler]

50 minutes ago, BigHewer said:

Yes, completely agreed. Gold is up and that’s a reflection of sentiment. Of course (of course!) US stocks will take a hit and recover.  Bad stuff happens and good things follow. Obviously I’m very upset about the timing of this, especially with the light on the horizon.

But if I were a despotic thug, I would want to strike while the iron is hot. So I empathize on some level. No point in invading when a post-Covid worldwide economic recovery is underway.

Stock markets well overdue for another massive correction in any case

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

RT do have some decent fair reports. They have a clear pro- Russia agenda but that’s obvious & fine. Same with conservative agenda GB News & Fox News. CNN sometimes good but dishonest by claiming impartiality & no agenda. 

I also watch RT. So long as you do remember they are pro Putin then its fine. Along with Fox.

I also read several different UK newspapers all for the same reason.

Somewhere, in between what they are all reporting, will be the truth. 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, JohninDublin said:

I'm not too sure that Patton was far wrong in his thinking. It's difficult for me to sometimes rationalise why Britain went to war in defence of Poland, when Churchill was only too happy to hand the Poles and most of E. Europe over to Russia at the end of it all. 

Because short of nuking Moscow, east Europe was lost to Russia who had shortened and help win WW2 by destroying 80% German Army, with western help.

[oldschooler]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I also watch RT. So long as you do remember they are pro Putin then its fine. Along with Fox.

I also read several different UK newspapers all for the same reason.

Somewhere, in between what they are all reporting, will be the truth. 

Exactly. Similar approach myself. Daily Mail have some selected good writers too. BBC Online News is excellent but just cant stand their >unidentified slang term< commentators. I do try to balance things with Guardian & NYT but honestly they are often so weak and >unidentified slang term< that they jar badly with my conservative views. 

[Dedinbed]

1 hour ago, JohninDublin said:

I'm not too sure that Patton was far wrong in his thinking. It's difficult for me to sometimes rationalise why Britain went to war in defence of Poland, when Churchill was only too happy to hand the Poles and most of E. Europe over to Russia at the end of it all. 

Churchill was well aware of Russian intentions of not withdrawing at the end of the conflict during the final weeks of WW2 and his foreboding of what was likely to happen became a source of irritation to the by then ailing President Roosevelt who wanted not to upset Stalin in bringing the war to a close and to bring many U S service people back from Europe .. Churchill then silently asked his military planners to put together a plan known as Operation Unthinkable for effectively trying to boot Russia out of the part of Germany they were occupying and Poland early summer 1945 .. the planners essentially told him to forget it with the size of the Russian armies encamped there and further south in around Austria and Czechoslovakia that could be drawn in had it ever came to conflict .. there are numerous other strands of impracticality and a desire on the West's side not to get drawn into another conflict that put paid to the idea at the time ( not least that it would have required considerable U S input which would not have been an easy sell to the U S ) but within a 12 mth the U S then under Harry Truman had begun to arrive at the same conclusions as Churchill and began to develop their own plan called Operation Pincher .. 

 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, butterfly said:

The US is playing a dangerous game trying to poke fun at the Great Bear of Europe, aka Russia

Why is the EU taking orders from NATO and the US command?

we should integrate Russia in our own European defense initiative and get rid of that stupid NATO thing

*Inflammatory sentence deleted, by moderator*

NATO is a military defence alliance for Free European Nations. Opposite of     “stupid”. They don’t “integrate” or ally with Enemy Tyrannies like Russia or China or Iran.

NATO don’t give a rats arse about EU. 

EU is a Trading Block playing Nationhood & Politics without a military.

If Russia was Free, need for NATO gone.

 

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, oldschooler said:

Exactly. Similar approach myself. Daily Mail have some selected good writers too. BBC Online News is excellent but just cant stand their >unidentified slang term< commentators. I do try to balance things with Guardian & NYT but honestly they are often so weak and >unidentified slang term< that they jar badly with my conservative views. 

Oh believe me my friend that watching FOX or reading the Daily Mail often has the veins on my neck sticking out.

But if you dont try and see points from all directions you are failing to give yourself the information you need to make an opinion.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, Lyp14 [ctxa] said:

Look, I don’t wish for the Russians to invade Ukraine using force. But as a European, I don’t understand why people from my country should die fighting a war which has very little to do with us.

Needless to say, if the defense of Ukraine depended on me enlisting to go to that war, they’d be waiting forever. 

We will put you down as a "probably no" then. 

Its a good job that when its happened before in Europe there were people who did enlist otherwise you Europeans would all still be part of the third Reich right now. 

[KRLMRX]

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

 

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by KRLMRX