News Forum - Bangkok’s crazy cables and wires to go underground, project starts this year

[Thaiger]

Bangkok’s cables and wires, looped haphazardly above the city’s streets, is known not only to be an eye-sore, but also an electrician’s nightmare. Now, the capital’s officials are planning to get around 1,400 kilometres of electrical cables and communication lines underground within the next three years. Work for the project will start this year. This year, 450 kilometres of communication lines will be placed underground, according to Nation Thailand, citing MP from the ruling Palang Pracharath Party, Korranit Ngamsukonratana. Then, over the course of the next three years, 936 kilometres of the remaining lines will be moved underground. For the […]

The story Bangkok’s crazy cables and wires to go underground, project starts this year as seen on Thaiger News.

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[Jason]

An end to the spaghetti wires that humm? interesting.....

[Benroon]

I've always said this will transform the look of Thailand. Can't happen soon enough

[HRPuckinfutz]

But all those cables and wires are like modern art!  It's part of Thailand's charm.

[Soidog]

This is a massive waste of money. Unless they solve the underlying practices which led to this mess in the first place, placing them in underground cable ducts will just result in the ducts filling up and it will cost 5-10 times as much to clear the underground infrastructure. Sort out the operation first and then spend the high cost of putting them underground. 

[Naanlaew]

That should work well until the next heavy rains or flooding occurs. Good luck with that project. 

 

[Convert54]

11 minutes ago, Naanlaew said:

That should work well until the next heavy rains or flooding occurs. Good luck with that project. 

 

Why so ?

[Tim_Melb]

14 minutes ago, Naanlaew said:

That should work well until the next heavy rains or flooding occurs. Good luck with that project. 

 

It depends on how it's done. If the upgrade the infrastructure to use fibre etc and use waterproof connections it should be pretty much flood resistant if they leave the copper in place then the first decent rain will take out phone internet cable etc etc as you suggest. In the Philippines they are doing this in a lot of areas around Manila and surprisingly they are upgrading the infrastructure so it's a good deal. They are even doing it in slum areas as well as the upper-class inner city areas. 

[Convert54]

1 hour ago, Benroon said:

I've always said this will transform the look of Thailand. Can't happen soon enough

Or at least  large parts of  the metropolitan areas that are currently so disfigured by comparison to the newer and redeveloped sections where undergrounding has already been adopted.

[Benroon]

1 hour ago, Naanlaew said:

That should work well until the next heavy rains or flooding occurs. Good luck with that project. 

 

Good housing projects now put all their cables underground - they don't seem to have a problem.

[Benroon]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

This is a massive waste of money. Unless they solve the underlying practices which led to this mess in the first place, placing them in underground cable ducts will just result in the ducts filling up and it will cost 5-10 times as much to clear the underground infrastructure. Sort out the operation first and then spend the high cost of putting them underground. 

I don't understand - 5-10 times as much as what ?

You can get waterproof ducts - as said on another post, all good quality housing projects now bury their cables so I don't think it's an issue. When you see the enormous projects Thailand is taking on, burying cables, though I'll believe it when I see it, is not beyond them.

[Stardust]

4 hours ago, Thaiger said:

Bangkok’s cables and wires, looped haphazardly above the city’s streets, is known not only to be an eye-sore, but also an electrician’s nightmare. Now, the capital’s officials are planning to get around 1,400 kilometres of electrical cables and communication lines underground within the next three years. Work for the project will start this year. This year, 450 kilometres of communication lines will be placed underground, according to Nation Thailand, citing MP from the ruling Palang Pracharath Party, Korranit Ngamsukonratana. Then, over the course of the next three years, 936 kilometres of the remaining lines will be moved underground. For the […]

The story Bangkok’s crazy cables and wires to go underground, project starts this year as seen on Thaiger News.

Read the full story

Hopefully not only in Bangkok. But if they use the same system like they they do at the poles the pipes will be full quickly! No distribution plans, colours or marked cables and thats why they leave the old ones and cabeling all new because they not know which cable is which cable and wich cable is defect.

[Soidog]

15 minutes ago, Benroon said:

I don't understand - 5-10 times as much as what ?

You can get waterproof ducts - as said on another post, all good quality housing projects now bury their cables so I don't think it's an issue. When you see the enormous projects Thailand is taking on, burying cables, though I'll believe it when I see it, is not beyond them.

To clear up telco ducts that have become full due to redundant cables not being reused or removed, will cost approximately  5-10 times more than cleaning up overhead cable infrastructure. Most telcos regard their underground ducts as one of their most valued assets. Space is managed carefully to avoid overcrowding. Unlike overhead cables, a full duct results in failed installs. It’s vital that good practice is instilled in installation teams prior to moving network assets underground where they are much harder and more expensive to work on.

With regard to waterproof ducts, that’s unnecessary as the fibre optic cables and copper cables are already waterproof. It’s the fibre joints or copper joints that need to be housed in waterproof housings. Hope that answers your question? 
 

[Soidog]

8 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Hopefully not only in Bangkok. But if they use the same system like they they do at the poles the pipes will be full quickly! No distribution plans, colours or marked cables and thats why they leave the old ones and cabeling all new because they not know which cable is which cable and wich cable is defect.

Exactly @Stardust  underground ducts are expensive to install. The capacity in those ducts is consequently a valuable asset that needs to be managed very carefully. It’s clear from the overhead cables, no such system or operating procedures are in place. That needs to be resolved prior to spending large sums of money on moving cables underground. 

[Naanlaew]

Perhaps it is feasible to install during new construction in the "good housing projects" , but trying to rewire Bangkok is a bit more of a bite to chew on.

 What prevents the conduits from rupture and leaking when the roadways and walkways are dug up to perform work on other utilities ? 

[Tunafish]

Total nonsense: 95 % of these cables are redundant copper cables (telephone lines, CTV cables and copper internet cables) none of which are in current use. 

The companies who hang these cables, (and still own them) should be ordered to remove them. End of the story.........

[Soidog]

2 hours ago, Naanlaew said:

What prevents the conduits from rupture and leaking when the roadways and walkways are dug up to perform work on other utilities ? 

Good question and one many telcos and utilities have to deal with around the world. In some countries there are shared databases of where civils infrastructure is located. In the UK and US for example these are available on line and utilities companies pay for the service. It’s also the case that should a power utility for example wish to dig or work in the area where your telco duct is located, you may be requested to move or divert your ducts in order for the work to be completed. In other parts of the world the diggers move in and simply damage the infrastructure. Some companies will send people out on site to monitor works by other utilities to ensure their own plant is not damaged. Putting cables underground sounds simple enough. In reality it is a massive undertaking and needs to be managed carefully. If Thailand is really about to embark on this project, it should not miss an opportunity to do it properly.  

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, Tunafish said:

Total nonsense: 95 % of these cables are redundant copper cables (telephone lines, CTV cables and copper internet cables) none of which are in current use. 

The companies who hang these cables, (and still own them) should be ordered to remove them. End of the story.........

I agree. The first stage is to stop the poor practice and the second stage is tidying up the current mess by removing old and unused cables. Then and only then should the decision be taken about spending money to put them underground. Just tidying them up and removing redundant cables would make them a whole lot more attractive and reliable. 

[Stonker]

5 hours ago, Soidog said:

This is a massive waste of money. Unless they solve the underlying practices which led to this mess in the first place, placing them in underground cable ducts will just result in the ducts filling up and it will cost 5-10 times as much to clear the underground infrastructure. Sort out the operation first and then spend the high cost of putting them underground. 

For once, @Soidog, I couldn't agree more.

It's putting the cart before the horse.

First, you remove the old, redundant cables throughout the city.

Then, once you only have necessary, in use cables, you start putting them underground.

Penny-packeting putting the cables underground as this is, is just an enormous waste of money and way beyond inefficient.

[Alavan]

7 hours ago, Naanlaew said:

That should work well until the next heavy rains or flooding occurs. Good luck with that project. 

 

You know they have cables underground and rain in other countries also?

They even lay cables on the seabed.

[Marc26]

3 hours ago, Soidog said:

Good question and one many telcos and utilities have to deal with around the world. In some countries there are shared databases of where civils infrastructure is located. In the UK and US for example these are available on line and utilities companies pay for the service. It’s also the case that should a power utility for example wish to dig or work in the area where your telco duct is located, you may be requested to move or divert your ducts in order for the work to be completed. In other parts of the world the diggers move in and simply damage the infrastructure. Some companies will send people out on site to monitor works by other utilities to ensure their own plant is not damaged. Putting cables underground sounds simple enough. In reality it is a massive undertaking and needs to be managed carefully. If Thailand is really about to embark on this project, it should not miss an opportunity to do it properly.  

1st off, I love reading knowledgable posts like this on a subject I know nothing about

 

But Thailand has done this all over, recently in Phuket. And it looks great

 

Would it be different in Bangkok because of the congestion?

[Naanlaew]

Thought this thread was about Bangkok & Thailand , not other countries. Bangkok will be the seabed soon enough. 

 

[SkipsPa]

10 hours ago, HRPuckinfutz said:

But all those cables and wires are like modern art!  It's part of Thailand's charm.

I recall some years ago posting a pic on Facebook commenting on Thailand's "sophisticated wiring" which I think is fairly common in Asia. :)

[Soidog]

5 hours ago, Marc26 said:

1st off, I love reading knowledgable posts like this on a subject I know nothing about

But Thailand has done this all over, recently in Phuket. And it looks great

Would it be different in Bangkok because of the congestion?

Thanks @Marc26. 
 

The same rules apply, but as you suggest, the higher number of cables in Bangkok make the potential issue a greater concern. That said, there use to be some very congested poles in Patong.
 

Most of the Telco companies I’ve worked for had a general rule that when duct capacity reached 2/3rd, then a new cable could only be added if a damaged or redundant cable was removed at cost to the new installation. Clearly that wasn’t always possible, in which case the additional cable was installed and at some point additional ducts were installed. 

[Stardust]

10 hours ago, Tunafish said:

Total nonsense: 95 % of these cables are redundant copper cables (telephone lines, CTV cables and copper internet cables) none of which are in current use. 

The companies who hang these cables, (and still own them) should be ordered to remove them. End of the story.........

But this is a mission imposible. Did you ever watch if there is a defect how they fix it? They leave the old ones and wiring new because they simply cannot know which cables are which cables or which one are defect, because they have no distribution plans, distributiin boxes, no colours, no number system etc etc. By the way how to find out from which company (telecom cables) and which cables are legal??