News Forum - Anutin says no to easing restrictions, praises Thailand’s handling of pandemic

[nobusinessofurs]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

I don't think it's true that farangs are "blamed for bringing Covid into Thailand" - I've certainly never felt that.

"Looked uopn as lepers by the locals", though ... quite possibly, by those who don't know me (fortunately very few locally, if anyone) but possibly with good reason  - not because I'm any more likely to bring in or even have Covid, but because I'm less likely to wear a mask as Thais do and to be careful about social contacts and so on so I'm more of a danger.

Chinese brought the wahun virus into Thailand 

[riclag]

32 minutes ago, nobusinessofurs said:

So persons with side effects got a few baht, what about those who couldn't work and buy food. They got NOTHING 

Your right! My quoted statement was a side note of the total failure of this govt when it came to its people! That side note was meant for the debilitating effects because of the vaccine !  All the other things you mention is humanitarian negligence  gone viral!

People who think that these two tugs (antunin and preyut )as doing a good job  with everything covid need to stop eating ya ba

[DontacoXII]

3 hours ago, Stonker said:

That's why, hard though it may be to accept, those making the hard choices should be aware of what's happening in the trenches but able to look at the bigger picture - very hard to do if you're in the trenches yourself.

That is assuming in the trenches you base your decisions on emotions or feelings. It’s very possible to make logical, rational decisions while in the trenches where you are more informed of the actual situation and can make a more impactful decision. 

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Excess deaths has been a mixed bag here in Thailand oddly enough.

Excess mortality during the Coronavirus pandemic (COVID-19) - Our World in Data

If you go to the chart and add Thailand its up and down like a bargirls drawers. 

It did peek at +36% last August though. Must have been a lot of Delta going around I guess.

Not sure what I make of the figures.

If you look at the excess deaths and Covid death fluctuations in Thailand they're actually surprisingly similar, although like most countries they're not exactly the same as there are too many other variables.

Flu deaths, for example, whether you take the Thai figure or any other, dropped by about 90% which isn't a surprise given mask wearing, social distancing and hand washing, and deaths in traffic accidents dropped drastically during lockdowns and that's reflected in negative excess deaths at those times.

You can't apply the same rules everywhere, though - in the UK twice as many died in RTAs on bicycles during lockdowns than in a normal year, as more took to bikes to exercise or avoid public transport. 

 

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

The number of tests performed and the positivity rate

Which are both meaningless here, as I've tried to explain.

It's like judging at Hickstead using the standard from Cruft's.

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

The way deaths are recorded etc all leave me with considerable doubt.

I recall the last time you said this your doubts were, literally, because they were counted by Thais!

 

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

These people are dying of something. If it’s not Covid, then maybe it’s suicide or hunger as a result of the economic damage and the lack of government support.

Yes - maybe it's all a coincidence. Except "if it's not Covid" and it's something else then Thailand really has found a miracle cure !

[Stonker]

36 minutes ago, DontacoXII said:

That is assuming in the trenches you base your decisions on emotions or feelings. It’s very possible to make logical, rational decisions while in the trenches where you are more informed of the actual situation and can make a more impactful decision. 

I can't help wondering if you've ever been 'in the trenches' (and it's your metaphor, not mine).

The reason no successful modern military commander in the last hundred years or so ever based themselves 'in the trenches' isn't cowardice or comfort, but it's simply that it's impossible to make "logical, rational decisions while in the trenches" as you can't be "more informed of the actual situation".

There are other distractions and other priorities - such as your own survival.

Let's get away from the military metaphors, and just keep it simple.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

People who think that these two tugs (antunin and preyut )as doing a good job  with everything covid need to stop eating ya ba

I'm not a fan of either, and I think the vaccine procurement and roll out were appalling as were decisions to encourage travel at Songkran last year, but that doesn't change the reality that as a country Thailand has done no worse than anyone else, better than most, and far better than many including pretty much all of the West.

[samiam123]

10 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I'm not a fan of either, and I think the vaccine procurement and roll out were appalling as were decisions to encourage travel at Songkran last year, but that doesn't change the reality that as a country Thailand has done no worse than anyone else, better than most, and far better than many including pretty much all of the West.

Oh please.  There are mountains of evidence that the lockdowns and restrictions did absolutely nothing.  You can compare countries with draconian measures to countries that were almost wide open and you see almost no difference.  There is even a comprehensive scientific study that concludes just that.

https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-of-the-Effects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf

Edited February 8, 2022 by samiam123

[oldschooler]

12 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I can't help wondering if you've ever been 'in the trenches' (and it's your metaphor, not mine).

The reason no successful modern military commander in the last hundred years or so ever based themselves 'in the trenches' isn't cowardice or comfort, but it's simply that it's impossible to make "logical, rational decisions while in the trenches" as you can't be "more informed of the actual situation".

There are other distractions and other priorities - such as your own survival.

Let's get away from the military metaphors, and just keep it simple.

“ We are right behind you “ WW1 General, to his trench - based officers………….. ”yes, about 30 miles behind you”  General’s Adjudant.

[oldschooler]

6 minutes ago, samiam123 said:

Oh please.  There are mountains of evidence that the lockdowns and restrictions did absolutely nothing.  You can compare countries with draconian measures to countries that were almost wide open and you see almost no difference.  There is even a comprehensive scientific study that concludes just that.

https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-of-the-Effects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf

That would mean the “ let it rip” school of thought was right all along and only the later vaccines had any effect on Covid death rates ? 

[King Cotton]

13 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

That would mean the “ let it rip” school of thought was right all along and only the later vaccines had any effect on Covid death rates ? 

I'm not sufficiently informed to comment, regarding ' . . . the “ let it rip” school of thought was right all along . . . ', but the above-linked lockdowns analysis more than merely asks questions . . . an enlightening read, for sure.

[Soidog]

54 minutes ago, Stonker said:

recall the last time you said this your doubts were, literally, because they were counted by Thais

Almost correct Stonker as usual. I doubt them because they are manipulated and controlled by a military junta who I wouldn’t trust if they told me it was raining outside, not because they are counted by Thais.
 

It never ceases to amaze me that people like you will happily defend and support a controlling and manipulative dictatorship and yet criticise the very government structures your ancestors fought so hard for. I guess it’s all part of the issue of you are trying to convince yourself about life choices. Years ago they hung people for treason. 

[Withnail]

44 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I'm not a fan of either, and I think the vaccine procurement and roll out were appalling as were decisions to encourage travel at Songkran last year, but that doesn't change the reality that as a country Thailand has done no worse than anyone else, better than most, and far better than many including pretty much all of the West.

Your comparing apples with..... bricks.

Age demographics, how people live, how doctors certificate deaths in Thailand, unless in hospital or being watched closely at home.

Thailand got lucky with Alpha and then tried to bargain basement procure the vaccine at a later date when the price came down.

Didn't join covax, refused free AZ from India and then had to beg and get donations when Delta arrived.

No support for their population. Unlike the West which had variations on furlough schemes for employees and support for businesses.

That's why the West has bounced back so strongly from the pandemic. Meanwhile, Thailand maintains it's place as the most unequal distribution of wealth in SE Asia.

The Thai HiSo's coined it and f**k the peasants.

Great to see the rose tinted Thai huggers spout their nonsense.

Go and learn what actually happened rather than compare a Third World country with countries that produced vaccines and therapeutics for said Third World countries.

Now the West is opening up, enjoying a return to normal, back to full rugby stadiums, return to office and acceptance of an endemic virus that now has the same mortality rate as flu in the UK.

Don't mention civilised, contributory countries in the same breath as this xenophobic hillbilly and his odious gold covered chums.

Laughable.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Withnail
Edit

[oldschooler]

17 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Almost correct Stonker as usual. I doubt them because they are manipulated and controlled by a military junta who I wouldn’t trust if they told me it was raining outside, not because they are counted by Thais.
 

It never ceases to amaze me that people like you will happily defend and support a controlling and manipulative dictatorship and yet criticise the very government structures your ancestors fought so hard for. I guess it’s all part of the issue of you are trying to convince yourself about life choices. Years ago they hung people for treason. 

Would believe this type of govt. about the rain falling ….. but only if corroborated by two independent witnesses with lab Cert.

[Soidog]

2 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Would believe this type of govt. about the rain falling ….. but only if corroborated by two independent witnesses with lab Cert.

You could still fudge the results as long as you paid them enough. According to official governments forecasts it’s going to snow in Bangkok tomorrow. It must be right as it’s “official”. Same as the “Official 30 deaths from influenza that some fools believe. Laughable is being too kind. Sad is a better description.  

[Fundok]

3 hours ago, Soidog said:

The answer to your two questions below. 

Thanks. Very interesting indeed. Obviously, neither CH nor TH are merely testing enough, whereas UK is a role model in this respect.

[oldschooler]

18 minutes ago, Withnail said:

Your comparing apples with..... bricks.

Age demographics, how people live, how doctors certificate deaths in Thailand, unless in hospital or being watched closely at home.

Thailand got lucky with Alpha and then tried to bargain basement procure the vaccine at a later date when the price came down.

Didn't join covax, refused free AZ from India and then had to beg and get donations when Delta arrived.

No support for their population. Unlike the West which had variations on furlough schemes for employees and support for businesses.

That's why the West has bounced back so strongly from the pandemic. Meanwhile, Thailand maintains it's place as the most unequal distribution of wealth in SE Asia.

The Thai HiSo's coined it and f**k the peasants.

Great to see the rose tinted Thai huggers spout their nonsense.

Go and learn what actually happened rather than compare a Third World country with countries that produced vaccines and therapeutics for said Third World countries.

Now the West is opening up, enjoying a return to normal, back to full rugby stadiums, return to office and acceptance of an endemic virus that now has the same mortality rate as flu in the UK.

Don't mention civilised, contributory countries in the same breath as this xenophobic hillbilly and his odious gold covered chums.

Laughable.

there is certainly little proper comparison on anything much between here & UK/ West. One hundred same criteria but completely different basis/ inputs.

wealth distribution here worst in the world, far worse than Russia or Nigeria.

thais are an ancient people with ultra slow modernization vs. advanced modern Brits inventing or developing nearly everything in the modern world.

No value of life here evidenced by tolerated accepted appalling carnage of 20,000 young Thai moped dead every year with nothing done.

[oldschooler]

7 minutes ago, Soidog said:

You could still fudge the results as long as you paid them enough. According to official governments forecasts it’s going to snow in Bangkok tomorrow. It must be right as it’s “official”. Same as the “Official 30 deaths from influenza that some fools believe. Laughable is being too kind. Sad is a better description.  

I Should have said “ western scientific institute “ witnesses !

Certainly can only believe actual facts or events completed & corroborated.

Plans, Forecasts, Estimates, Reviews, Considering …. NO. Is it Done or Not? 

Statistics here ? Forget It…….like 88% Thais fully vaxxed…. impossible with their superstitions against vax ……

[vlad]

25 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

there is certainly little proper comparison on anything much between here & UK/ West. One hundred same criteria but completely different basis/ inputs.

wealth distribution here worst in the world, far worse than Russia or Nigeria.

thais are an ancient people with ultra slow modernization vs. advanced modern Brits inventing or developing nearly everything in the modern world.

No value of life here evidenced by tolerated accepted appalling carnage of 20,000 young Thai moped dead every year with nothing done.

They are doing something oldschooler there training the Thai's what a red light means. 

[Rob2010]

I think the focus on testing/ vaccines etc completely misses the point.

Unlike the West Thailand appears to have wilfully impoverished a huge amount of it's population. I have been shocked at the scale of economic devastation in both Phuket and Pattaya since my return. One billion baht is a joke number.

I have been fiercely critical of the idiots governing the UK but now that I have seen what has been drastically under reported here in terms of the economic damage I am very grateful that we have had our idiots rather than Thailand's idiots governing the UK

[vlad]

20 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

I Should have said “ western scientific institute “ witnesses !

Certainly can only believe actual facts or events completed & corroborated.

Plans, Forecasts, Estimates, Reviews, Considering …. NO. Is it Done or Not? 

Statistics here ? Forget It…….like 88% Thais fully vaxxed…. impossible with their superstitions against vax ……

You will be lucky if 40% were tested months ago certainly not regular up-to-date testing, weekly if there meeting and greeting customers.

[oldschooler]

6 minutes ago, vlad said:

They are doing something oldschooler there training the Thai's what a red light means. 

Culture overrides Care here regrettably

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, samiam123 said:

Oh please.  There are mountains of evidence that the lockdowns and restrictions did absolutely nothing.  You can compare countries with draconian measures to countries that were almost wide open and you see almost no difference.  There is even a comprehensive scientific study that concludes just that.

https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-of-the-Effects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf

I'm not sure what Thailand you've been in for the last couple of years, but the one I've been in hardly had any lockdowns and has had no "draconian measures".

However valid your criticisms of "draconian measures" are, what possible relevance do they have if they didn't happen here?

[Fluke]

5 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I'm not sure what Thailand you've been in for the last couple of years, but the one I've been in hardly had any lockdowns and has had no "draconian measures".

However valid your criticisms of "draconian measures" are, what possible relevance do they have if they didn't happen here?

Where abouts in Thailand have you been living ?

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, King Cotton said:

. . an enlightening read, for sure.

Yes, an "enlightening read, for sure", but of absolutely zero relevance to this thread, or to how well or how badly Thailand's done - neither the study, nor as far as I can see any of the 32 studies it was based on, even mention Thailand at all or consider any of the steps or restrictions taken by Thailand.

How can you criticise what Thailand's done based on that study when Thailand wasn't included in the study and the countries that were took very different steps to anything Thailand did?

I've seen some smoke and mirrors here, but that has to be one of the best !