PAYPAL THAILAND NOW FULLY CANCELLED

[Fiver]

Despite efforts of Paypal to relaunch in Thailand it seems to be all over now.

Customers, both private and business received an email this morning that all the documents they had to file to keep using their Paypal account in Thailand after February 18 was just a waste of effort because Paypal and the Thai government cannot seem to get the agreement sealed.

 

This means money cannot be received and transferred via Paypal anymore from March 7 on. 

This is very bad news for individuals but worse for business owners wishing to get payments via paypal. Online sales is limited by a margin...

 

Understandably the Thai government tries to reduce money laundering but did they think this through well enough keeping in mind their optimistic plans of attracting foreigners to do business in Thailand?

 

[cmsally]

I wouldn't say it is definitely cancelled , more like a breakdown in negotiations perhaps?

This is from my PayPal business account email:

"What do you need to do?

The account limitation will take effect on March 7, 2022. Until then, you may continue to use your PayPal account as normal.

You should spend or withdraw any remaining balance to your linked bank account. If you have not linked a bank account yet, you can find a guide on our website.

We will contact you again once we are ready to proceed with the relaunch of the new services with PayPal Thailand.

We understand that this news may disappoint you, and for this we sincerely apologize. We are working closely with the relevant authorities in Thailand to accelerate our relaunch of the new services and minimize any further disruption. "

Something is definitely going on but not sure what!

[Thaidup]

Got the same email, I might try re-opening my Aus account. Will let you know if they say I can.

[AussieBob]

My understanding is that Paypal in Thailand is refusing to sign the agreement with the Thai Government regarding their new Know Your Business (KYB) program, which is intended to increase transparency in finance and combat money laundering (and collect taxes).  But it appears that the Thai Govt has gone much much further than is required to finally meet the international laws regarding 'transparency in finance and money laundering'.  Apparently under the KYB - all accounts will be charged a 7% VAT on all transactions, and all transactions must be reported, and all transactions can only be made in Thai baht, and money cannot be transferred to overseas bank accounts - especially not USA.

Sounds to me that yet again Thailand is shooting itself in the foot. They are clearly attempting to get taxes applied to (and control over) all the online transactions that are going on inside Thailand - especially those where currently small business people are paying little/no taxes.  The bigger question is do they really know what this will do to those 'digital nomads' they are trying to attract?  How will any 'digital nomad' operate inside Thailand, when they are forced to comply with the Thailand 'China like' banking, control and tax system for online payments. 

Perhaps things will work out - but for the Thai Authorities to realise they have made a mistake and to back down, will not be something they will readily accept. 

[cmsally]

43 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

My understanding is that Paypal in Thailand is refusing to sign the agreement with the Thai Government regarding their new Know Your Business (KYB) program, which is intended to increase transparency in finance and combat money laundering (and collect taxes).  But it appears that the Thai Govt has gone much much further than is required to finally meet the international laws regarding 'transparency in finance and money laundering'.  Apparently under the KYB - all accounts will be charged a 7% VAT on all transactions, and all transactions must be reported, and all transactions can only be made in Thai baht, and money cannot be transferred to overseas bank accounts - especially not USA.

Sounds to me that yet again Thailand is shooting itself in the foot. They are clearly attempting to get taxes applied to (and control over) all the online transactions that are going on inside Thailand - especially those where currently small business people are paying little/no taxes.  The bigger question is do they really know what this will do to those 'digital nomads' they are trying to attract?  How will any 'digital nomad' operate inside Thailand, when they are forced to comply with the Thailand 'China like' banking, control and tax system for online payments. 

Perhaps things will work out - but for the Thai Authorities to realise they have made a mistake and to back down, will not be something they will readily accept. 

That is very interesting and makes a lot of sense! I presume that by "will be charged a 7% VAT on all transactions" , you mean 7% on the actual transaction amount rather than the PayPal fee. I heard a similar rumour a while back (it seemed rather ridiculous but then this is Thailand!)

I also got a phone call out of the blue from PayPal Singapore asking me if I would sign up for the new service. I basically told them it seemed like a .... service so probably not. I told him to spill the beans on what was happening and he basically said nothing was certain and they would do the best that they could to continue "normal service". Hence I am not surprised by the latest announcement!

[Marc26]

51 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

My understanding is that Paypal in Thailand is refusing to sign the agreement with the Thai Government regarding their new Know Your Business (KYB) program, which is intended to increase transparency in finance and combat money laundering (and collect taxes).  But it appears that the Thai Govt has gone much much further than is required to finally meet the international laws regarding 'transparency in finance and money laundering'.  Apparently under the KYB - all accounts will be charged a 7% VAT on all transactions, and all transactions must be reported, and all transactions can only be made in Thai baht, and money cannot be transferred to overseas bank accounts - especially not USA.

Sounds to me that yet again Thailand is shooting itself in the foot. They are clearly attempting to get taxes applied to (and control over) all the online transactions that are going on inside Thailand - especially those where currently small business people are paying little/no taxes.  The bigger question is do they really know what this will do to those 'digital nomads' they are trying to attract?  How will any 'digital nomad' operate inside Thailand, when they are forced to comply with the Thailand 'China like' banking, control and tax system for online payments. 

Perhaps things will work out - but for the Thai Authorities to realise they have made a mistake and to back down, will not be something they will readily accept. 

How are they shooting themselves in the foot

 

If you are living in Thailand and conducting business while in Thailand 

You should pay tax

[AussieBob]

To both @cmsally  and @Marc26

Firstly I will 'hit' marc over the head for criticising me about something he has absolutely no idea about.  Under the VAT Law in Thailand - quote "Any person or entity who regularly supplies goods or provides services in Thailand and has an annual turnover exceeding 1.8 million baht is subject to VAT in Thailand."  The issues being '1.8 million Baht' AND 'regularly'. Many small on-line traders inside Thailand are well below 1.8 million Baht - and many online sellers are not 'regularly' selling products or services.  I understand that under the KYB program, Paypal has to pay the VAT on all transactions -  I understand that was the first thing argued about.

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6043.html

Further, the payment of tax by digital nomads using that new Visa is a big problem in people taking up that Visa, if they have to pay VAT on all transactions - even if they are under 1.8 million baht.

In answer to cmsally - yes they are also required to pay 7% on their transaction fees - they also argued about that a lot I believe.

Perhaps Paypal Thailand will instigate something whereby they will use a Singapore bank to be able to transfer money to USA or certain other countries.  Many companies in Thailand, including The Thaiger group, are based out of Singapore for good reasons - 90+% of the issues being related to financial matters.

[Marc26]

6 hours ago, AussieBob said:

To both @cmsally  and @Marc26

Firstly I will 'hit' marc over the head for criticising me about something he has absolutely no idea about.  Under the VAT Law in Thailand - quote "Any person or entity who regularly supplies goods or provides services in Thailand and has an annual turnover exceeding 1.8 million baht is subject to VAT in Thailand."  The issues being '1.8 million Baht' AND 'regularly'. Many small on-line traders inside Thailand are well below 1.8 million Baht - and many online sellers are not 'regularly' selling products or services.  I understand that under the KYB program, Paypal has to pay the VAT on all transactions -  I understand that was the first thing argued about.

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6043.html

Further, the payment of tax by digital nomads using that new Visa is a big problem in people taking up that Visa, if they have to pay VAT on all transactions - even if they are under 1.8 million baht.

In answer to cmsally - yes they are also required to pay 7% on their transaction fees - they also argued about that a lot I believe.

Perhaps Paypal Thailand will instigate something whereby they will use a Singapore bank to be able to transfer money to USA or certain other countries.  Many companies in Thailand, including The Thaiger group, are based out of Singapore for good reasons - 90+% of the issues being related to financial matters.

Plain and simple

 

They want to try and evade paying tax and the loopholes are closing 

 

People want to drive on roads and have emergency medical care when needed

 

Well that shit costs money

 

You can't just skate through the world without paying your fair share 

 

[AussieBob]

19 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

Plain and simple

They want to try and evade paying tax and the loopholes are closing 

People want to drive on roads and have emergency medical care when needed

Well that shit costs money

You can't just skate through the world without paying your fair share 

All true - but VAT is only paid by traders in Thailand that earn over 1.8 million Baht PA - that is the law.  Online traders who do not qualify, are being forced under this new Thai program to pay the VAT from sale 1. I assume they then have to later claim it all back - imagine the paperwork and time to do that.  

[ronnie666]

Thailand saying MOVE FORWARD all the time, this is not moving forward this is a mayor step back online is the future, ends up like INDIA, and they want to get freelancers in Thailand.... ????? bad move BACKWARDS!

 

even if you have a paypal account thailand it is useless you not able to pay anyone outside of thailand, PAYPAL thailand is dead and they only bringing more people in financial problems with this move and idea of someone that probably never used paypal or will use it... these people make decisions in a breath of air without even thinking about what you do to people you decide over many people's INCOME AND FATE....

[Thaidup]

On 6/9/2022 at 12:34 PM, ronnie666 said:

Thailand saying MOVE FORWARD all the time, this is not moving forward this is a mayor step back online is the future, ends up like INDIA, and they want to get freelancers in Thailand.... ????? bad move BACKWARDS!

even if you have a paypal account thailand it is useless you not able to pay anyone outside of thailand, PAYPAL thailand is dead and they only bringing more people in financial problems with this move and idea of someone that probably never used paypal or will use it... these people make decisions in a breath of air without even thinking about what you do to people you decide over many people's INCOME AND FATE....

Yeah, I tried to buy something from the UK on ebay 2 months ago, did not work, called paypal Thailand on the phone, they said the seller has to send an invoice, I just gave up, havnt tried since, most items can be bought locally anyway via lazada. Im just waiting it out till they fix it.

[whyuthinktoomut]

If your focus is on e-commerce and B2B,  Stripe may be an option .

https://www.merchantmaverick.com/paypal-vs-stripe/

 

[butterfly]

3 hours ago, whyuthinktoomut said:

If your focus is on e-commerce and B2B,  Stripe may be an option .

https://www.merchantmaverick.com/paypal-vs-stripe/

Stripe is actually going through a compliance review at the moment and closing down thousands of accounts as we speak

gotta love that new compliant world :)

 

[dj230]

30 minutes ago, butterfly said:

Stripe is actually going through a compliance review at the moment and closing down thousands of accounts as we speak

gotta love that new compliant world :)

Is this only for thailand? Curious as I'm invested in a Stripe partnership who would benefit greatly if Stripe did well.

Stripe has millions of merchants so a few thousand isn't too bad 

 

[Pinetree]

7 hours ago, dj230 said:

Is this only for thailand?

yes.  My UK PayPal is working fine 

[Pinetree]

On 2/6/2022 at 3:58 PM, Marc26 said:

You can't just skate through the world without paying your fair share 

I agree, but tell that to all the celebs, sport stars  and oligarchs 

[Thaidup]

Me thinks it all about collecting customs and tax. But Im just a numbny that thinks out loud.

[butterfly]

On 6/12/2022 at 4:01 PM, dj230 said:

Is this only for thailand? Curious as I'm invested in a Stripe partnership who would benefit greatly if Stripe did well.

Stripe has millions of merchants so a few thousand isn't too bad 

I think they are trying to increase the value of their customer base, shutting down small vendors with low volume, a classic

probably preparing to sell themselves to a big player, so need to increase their ARR per user