News Forum - Thailand’s mask mandate still in place, violators face fines up to 20,000 baht – CCSA

[Fundok]

  On 2/1/2022 at 3:39 PM, oldschooler said:

Conclusion: Masks don’t help enough to justify wearing them with dehumanizing effects…….

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They could help potentially if

- FFP2 or FFP3 masks

- worn as prescribed covering nose and mouth and only used once and then be disinfected.

Both things rarely happen. So masks do offer some protection, but by far not that much. If the alternative means not to wear masks at all: not so sure about that. Better a little protection than no protection I would say.

[oldschooler]

  On 2/1/2022 at 4:03 PM, Stonker said:

"ALL western studies" DON'T "show insufficient or no benefit from std cloth masks" as I've shown by giving definitive links to large scale British and German studies that show the complete opposite, which I've given above and which I gave you the last time you claimed this.

What the western reports show that say that is that they offer little or no benefit for the wearer. Yet again, that's not what the mask mandates are for.

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Then other people can get vaxxed / get fit / reverse conditions, as I have done.
Or they can isolate/ catch/ recover, or not .Every capable adult responsible for themselves by making a maximum effort, with proper healthcare support.

I find it unreasonable ,and barely tolerable now, being endlessly shackled, by absurd post- booster govt. political measures ,to these “walking dead”, who have either already had long lives or compromised their lives through self- abuse. Even eighty years ago all these types would be long gone and Covid would have been treated as “just another flu”.

Welcome to our Brave New World where the life of every stranger is deemed “‘priceless” regardless of their profile & socio-economic damage caused.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Faz
edited quote

[Noble_Design]

  On 2/1/2022 at 4:20 PM, ctxa said:

At your age, what makes you think you'd survive COVID? 

I'm barely in my mid twenties, vaccinated 4 times, I reckon it's very likely, almost guaranteed I would survive COVID. Yet if necessary, I'm willing to sacrifice a few fun years of my life, so that people like my grandpa (71) or yourself do not need to pass this disease. 

A lot of people take the fact that they will survive COVID for granted, when in fact they may not. Take a look at Meat Loaf for example. 

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Maybe that's because Meat Loaf will Do Anything for Love?

[Lyp14 [ctxa]]

  On 2/1/2022 at 5:32 PM, Noble_Design said:

Maybe that's because Meat Loaf will Do Anything for Love?

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But he wouldn't do THAT 

Edited February 1, 2022 by ctxa

[Stonker]

  On 2/1/2022 at 4:36 PM, Fundok said:

They could help potentially if

- FFP2 or FFP3 masks

- worn as prescribed covering nose and mouth and only used once and then be disinfected.

Both things rarely happen. So masks do offer some protection, but by far not that much. If the alternative means not to wear masks at all: not so sure about that. Better a little protection than no protection I would say.

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Jesus H Christ.

Seriously - how many times does it have to be repeated that the mask policy, at least here and across Asia, isn't protection for the wearer - it's to protect others from the wearer, so everyone protects everyone else.

[Noble_Design]

  On 2/1/2022 at 5:33 PM, ctxa said:

But he wouldn't do that 

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That : wear a mask? 

[Fundok]

  On 2/1/2022 at 5:34 PM, Stonker said:

Jesus H Christ.

Seriously - how many times does it have to be repeated that the mask policy, at least here and across Asia, isn't protection for the wearer - it's to protect others from the wearer, so everyone protects everyone else.

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Sorry, but it's both - protection for yourself AND for others. But the extent of the protection depends on the circumstances as stated in my previous post (don't want to repeat myself). Just wearing any sort of mouth & nose cover simply won't do the trick, neither in Asia nor elsewhere.

[oldschooler]

  On 2/1/2022 at 5:32 PM, Noble_Design said:

Maybe that's because Meat Loaf will Do Anything for Love?

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 But he “won’t do that” ……Let’s see , mid 70s age , cocaine user, morbidly obese, unvaccinated. Very High Covid Death Risk no doubt …..

[Noble_Design]

  On 2/1/2022 at 5:46 PM, oldschooler said:

 But he “won’t do that” ……Let’s see , mid 70s age , cocaine user, morbidly obese, unvaccinated. Very High Covid Death Risk no doubt …..

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Now I understand the meaning of that song when he said he won't do that. He will do anything for love but he won't get vaccinated.

[Fundok]

  On 2/1/2022 at 4:06 PM, Marc26 said:

I would say the vast majority are wearing at least a 3 ply surgical mask

Which does offer decent protection

I think some uninformed people(not you) are confusing 3 ply masks as cloth masks, and they are not....

But this chart also shows you don't need to wear a mask outdoors when just passing by people, IMO

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cloth-face-mask-omicron-11640984082

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The German Max-Planck-Geselkschaft tested the effectivity of masks.

Their findings are that the highest level of protection is with a properly worn FFP2/KN95 mask. Even when in close proximity indoors for 20 minutes, the infection risk is slightly over 1/1000. With a medical mask (I guess this a the ones with 3 layers mentioned by you) the risk increases to 10% within the 20 minute period. Without any mask at all, even with keeping a distance of 3 metres, it doesn't take more than 5 minutes to get infected with a probabilty of close to 100%. The scientists conclude that in real life situations a tight sitting FFP2-mask provides about 75x better protection than a medical mask. But without any mask at all, the probabilty to get infected is even higher.

You can find this report here (sorry, in German only):

https://www.mpg.de/17915640/corona-risiko-maske-schutz#:~:text=Tragen sowohl die infizierte als,Infektion auf etwa vier Prozent.

[oldschooler]

  On 2/1/2022 at 4:20 PM, ctxa said:

At your age, what makes you think you'd survive COVID? 

I'm barely in my mid twenties, vaccinated 4 times, I reckon it's very likely, almost guaranteed I would survive COVID. Yet if necessary, I'm willing to sacrifice a few fun years of my life, so that people like my grandpa (71) or yourself do not need to pass this disease. 

A lot of people take the fact that they will survive COVID for granted, when in fact they may not. Take a look at Meat Loaf for example. 

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I have survived it. I’m 65 . No Conditions. Healthy Weight.No Gut. Strong Core from Gym / Swim. Triple Vaxxed. No Symptoms. Reversed my preDiabetic Obesity & Fatty Liver March - May 2020 as Maximum Survival Effort.

Plant Diet. No Alcohol / Drugs/ Cigs/ Sugar / Salt/ Grain/ Red Meat.

Phuket home the perfect place to change my lifestyle, sustain healthy living and see this out. Opposite of Meat Loaf …. Dr Berg You Tube….. it’s all there.

BUT if I had stayed in Europe during Covid I would quite possibly be diabetic , obese and possibly dead by now, yes indeed. 

[Fundok]

  On 2/1/2022 at 3:53 PM, Guest1 said:

Even the thinnest "thing" in front of YOUR Mouth and nose, lets say a neck scarve, is giving your breathing and talking aerosol flow a wider and undirected movement.

That, with a bit more distance as in a full plane ;-), is rising chances, that others aren't breathing that right away.

So it is for you, with there aerosols. 

And in case, you are using a "better mask", ffp 2, kn95, n95, kf 94, ...., You are also rising your chances by yourself.

Plus for others.

As long you cover mouth AND nose 

And yes, I think too, that it is plain stupid, to wear a mask with no one near you, outdoors.

Just it is ordered to do so. And the locals are much more relaxed, if foreigner do so. 

Also the rising numbers of "sec pvr test positive"  cases is pointing to the fact, that masks may prevent extended holidays or quarantaene in the home country, after returning to it!

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There is an interesting article (in German) about the effectivity of masks/no masks:

https://www.mpg.de/17915640/corona-risiko-maske-schutz#:~:text=Tragen sowohl die infizierte als,Infektion auf etwa vier Prozent.

Medical masks are about 75x less effective than thight sitting FFP2/KN95 masks. But still, much much better than wearing no mask at all.

[oldschooler]

  On 2/1/2022 at 5:59 PM, Fundok said:

The German Max-Planck-Geselkschaft tested the effectivity of masks.

Their findings are that the highest level of protection is with a properly worn FFP2/KN95 mask. Even when in close proximity indoors for 20 minutes, the infection risk is slightly over 1/1000. With a medical mask (I guess this a the ones with 3 layers mentioned by you) the risk increases to 10% within the 20 minute period. Without any mask at all, even with keeping a distance of 3 metres, it doesn't take more than 5 minutes to get infected with a probabilty of close to 100%. The scientists conclude that in real life situations a tight sitting FFP2-mask provides about 75x better protection than a medical mask. But without any mask at all, the probabilty to get infected is even higher.

You can find this report here (sorry, in German only):

https://www.mpg.de/17915640/corona-risiko-maske-schutz#:~:text=Tragen sowohl die infizierte als,Infektion auf etwa vier Prozent.

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Thanks but what did this report say about the std. cloth masks worn by 99%  ?

[oldschooler]

  On 2/1/2022 at 5:51 PM, Noble_Design said:

Now I understand the meaning of that song when he said he won't do that. He will do anything for love but he won't get vaccinated.

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Hmmm ….always thought it was anal sex …

[Stonker]

  On 2/1/2022 at 4:51 PM, oldschooler said:

Then other people can get vaxxed / get fit / reverse conditions, as I have done

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But "other people" can't.

It's not physically or biologically possible.

Not everyone here can get triple vaxxed yet as the supply of vaccines and the time limits don't permit it - that's simply not possible for many for another three to six months.

... and while 'getting fit' can improve some medical conditions such as hypertension (in some cases) and obesity it can't do anything for most others such as diabetes, cancer and the immunocompromised.

You can't "reverse conditions" like a missing spleen or gall bladder or stage 4 cancer, and most don't want to for pregnancy.

  On 2/1/2022 at 4:51 PM, oldschooler said:

Or they can isolate/ catch/ recover, or not

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"or not" being Long Covid and / or death.

... and based on the UK demographic that would mean over 1 in 20 having to isolate indefinitely as they were "clinically extremely vulnerable" and told were told to shield (UKHSA and UK UKNSO official figures) while around 40% are clinically vulnerable so they'd have to take extra precautions.

  On 2/1/2022 at 4:51 PM, oldschooler said:

I find it unreasonable ,and barely tolerable now, being endlessly shackled, by absurd post- booster govt. political measures ,to these “walking dead”, who have either already had long lives or compromised their lives through self- abuse. 

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While I respect your honesty for saying how selfish and intolerant you are, many don't feel the same way - and if a selfish, intolerant minority aren't willing to play their part in society and for the community voluntarily, then they have only themselves to blame when it has to be mandatory instead.

... and apart from as a result of smoking, few cases of cancer, for example, are "through self abuse" and I doubt most pregnant women, for example,  would appreciate being described as "walking dead".

  On 2/1/2022 at 4:51 PM, oldschooler said:

Even eighty years ago all these types would be long gone and Covid would have been treated as “just another flu”.

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Simply factually untrue on both counts.

  On 2/1/2022 at 4:51 PM, oldschooler said:

Welcome to our Brave New World where the life of every stranger is deemed “‘priceless” regardless of their profile & socio-economic damage caused.

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Not "priceless", but not worthless which is all too clearly how you see them.

[oldschooler]

  On 2/1/2022 at 4:36 PM, Fundok said:

They could help potentially if

- FFP2 or FFP3 masks

- worn as prescribed covering nose and mouth and only used once and then be disinfected.

Both things rarely happen. So masks do offer some protection, but by far not that much. If the alternative means not to wear masks at all: not so sure about that. Better a little protection than no protection I would say.

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Good post but sticking with my “ insufficient benefit “ conclusion….

[Marc26]

  On 2/1/2022 at 4:26 PM, Stonker said:

The chart and the article are specifically and only about how much protection masks give the wearer. That isn't what they're for here.

I'm not having a go at you, but how many times does this basic point have to be repeated?

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So, if everyone is wearing masks, it gives everyone the same protection of each other, no?

Aren't we saying the same thing here? Well except I didn't use your patented "Jesus H Christ"  :)

Jesus H Christ.

Seriously - how many times does it have to be repeated that the mask policy, at least here and across Asia, isn't protection for the wearer - it's to protect others from the wearer, so everyone protects everyone else.

[f_udf]

  On 2/1/2022 at 6:03 PM, oldschooler said:

I have survived it. I’m 65 . No Conditions. Healthy Weight.No Gut. Strong Core from Gym / Swim. Triple Vaxxed. No Symptoms. Reversed my preDiabetic Obesity & Fatty Liver March - May 2020 as Maximum Survival Effort.

Plant Diet. No Alcohol / Drugs/ Cigs/ Sugar / Salt/ Grain/ Red Meat.

Phuket home the perfect place to change my lifestyle, sustain healthy living and see this out. Opposite of Meat Loaf …. Dr Berg You Tube….. it’s all there.

BUT if I had stayed in Europe during Covid I would quite possibly be diabetic , obese and possibly dead by now, yes indeed. 

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I have survived it also. I’m 65+ . Overweight, slight gut, weak core.  No Vax. Had alpha (unverified) had omicron (verified). 

Whatever I feel like eating Diet.  Alcohol 2 or 3 nights per week/ Smoke Cigs/ Eat Sugar & Salt & Grain & Red Meat, etc. 

Wear a mask but only because it's the law.

[Marc26]

  On 2/1/2022 at 5:59 PM, Fundok said:

The German Max-Planck-Geselkschaft tested the effectivity of masks.

Their findings are that the highest level of protection is with a properly worn FFP2/KN95 mask. Even when in close proximity indoors for 20 minutes, the infection risk is slightly over 1/1000. With a medical mask (I guess this a the ones with 3 layers mentioned by you) the risk increases to 10% within the 20 minute period. Without any mask at all, even with keeping a distance of 3 metres, it doesn't take more than 5 minutes to get infected with a probabilty of close to 100%. The scientists conclude that in real life situations a tight sitting FFP2-mask provides about 75x better protection than a medical mask. But without any mask at all, the probabilty to get infected is even higher.

You can find this report here (sorry, in German only):

https://www.mpg.de/17915640/corona-risiko-maske-schutz#:~:text=Tragen sowohl die infizierte als,Infektion auf etwa vier Prozent.

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Yes, so the medical 3 ply mask offers a fair bit of protection

And I do think people are thinking that a medical mask is a "cloth mask" and it's not

The cloth mask are the branded type ones

So anti-maskers are being ignorantly wrong when they talk about cloth masks, usually

https://www.google.com/search?q=cloth+mask&rlz=1C1GCEJ_enCA874CA874&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiquo6akd_1AhW4FTQIHUxUD1kQ_AUoAnoECA0QBA&biw=1920&bih=1057&dpr=1#imgrc=OdyEN6E3XeFAPM

[oldschooler]

  On 2/1/2022 at 6:27 PM, f_udf said:

I have survived it also. I’m 65+ . Overweight, slight gut, weak core.  No Vax. Had alpha (unverified) had omicron (verified). 

Whatever I feel like eating Diet.  Alcohol 2 or 3 nights per week/ Smoke Cigs/ Eat Sugar & Salt & Grain & Red Meat, etc. 

Wear a mask but only because it's the law.

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Well certainly far from a maximum effort then … in fact appears no special survival effort at all …. Good natural immunity has seen you through but you have ridden your luck here …and not improved your very strong survival odds …..which I was not prepared to do ….Needed to get more healthy anyway and Covid provided the push …..agree your mask policy. 

[Stonker]

  On 2/1/2022 at 5:43 PM, Fundok said:

Sorry, but it's both - protection for yourself AND for others. But the extent of the protection depends on the circumstances as stated in my previous post (don't want to repeat myself). Just wearing any sort of mouth & nose cover simply won't do the trick, neither in Asia nor elsewhere.

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I'm not "sorry" any more, I'm just bored of what has now become, quite frankly, just inexcusable ignorance.

That may be the case in Switzerland, or Germany, or the USA but it isn't the case here in Thailand.

Here masks are mandated to protect others - end of story, as that's not only the policy but why so many Thais feel so strongly about it and are so sick of foreigners visibly and openly disrespecting and not considering those around them by not masking up.

If you want to give yourself extra protection by wearing a better quality mask that's up to you, but that isn't what the mask mandate is for here and it never has been.

[dj230]

wonder if they'll start ramping up mandates 

for the first time I was asked for show proof of vaccination, was to enter Singha complex

[Stonker]

  On 2/1/2022 at 6:26 PM, Marc26 said:

So, if everyone is wearing masks, it gives everyone the same protection of each other, no?

Aren't we saying the same thing here? Well except I didn't use your patented "Jesus H Christ"  :)

Jesus H Christ.

Seriously - how many times does it have to be repeated that the mask policy, at least here and across Asia, isn't protection for the wearer - it's to protect others from the wearer, so everyone protects everyone else.

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No, we're not "saying the same thing" because what I (and the studies) are saying is that the protection is from each other and so, within reason, the type of mask isn't crucial, while you (and your report) centred on the individual protection given by different types of mask.

They're to be worn here "as a precaution against spreading Covid-19" - that's the official policy, whatever other protection they give or whatever the policy is in the West.

[Stonker]

  On 2/1/2022 at 6:07 PM, oldschooler said:

Thanks but what did this report say about the std. cloth masks worn by 99%  ?

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"std. cloth masks" are NOT "worn by 99%" here.

Totally untrue.

You can verify that very easily by looking at the surveys (if you can't find them yourself I can find some for you) or just looking at any of the photos of crowds in the street or the shops and trains published in the media.

The overwhelming majority wear either 3-ply masks or variants of 94 or 95, and virtually the only people still wearing cloth masks are those who have to talk for a living such as politicians, news readers and some police.

[oldschooler]

  On 2/1/2022 at 6:10 PM, Stonker said:

But "other people" can't.

It's not physically or biologically possible.

Not everyone here can get triple vaxxed yet as the supply of vaccines and the time limits don't permit it - that's simply not possible for many for another three to six months.

... and while 'getting fit' can improve some medical conditions such as hypertension (in some cases) and obesity it can't do anything for most others such as diabetes, cancer and the immunocompromised.

You can't "reverse conditions" like a missing spleen or gall bladder or stage 4 cancer, and most don't want to for pregnancy.

"or not" being Long Covid and / or death.

... and based on the UK demographic that would mean over 1 in 20 having to isolate indefinitely as they were "clinically extremely vulnerable" and told were told to shield (UKHSA and UK UKNSO official figures) while around 40% are clinically vulnerable so they'd have to take extra precautions.

While I respect your honesty for saying how selfish and intolerant you are, many don't feel the same way - and if a selfish, intolerant minority aren't willing to play their part in society and for the community voluntarily, then they have only themselves to blame when it has to be mandatory instead.

... and apart from as a result of smoking, few cases of cancer, for example, are "through self abuse" and I doubt most pregnant women, for example,  would appreciate being described as "walking dead".

Simply factually untrue on both counts.

Not "priceless", but not worthless which is all too clearly how you see them.

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UK Age expectancy in 1942 ( probably counted from 1940 in fact before WW2 really got going) was 67 so those dying of age related Covid would have hardly been noticed. Unfit had no NHS so would simply have died with Covid making barely a ripple. 

Pregnant Women are not Unfit.

Life Value calculation is easier at the extremes obviously so a functioning Brain Surgeon ( millions of  dollars?) worth more than a Serial Killer ( worthless?) for example. 

People with missing organs must be incredibly rare. Self - abusers are very common I would think ( possibly 1 in 5 adults?) including type 2 Diabetics, Obese ( Liver), Smokers ( Heart/Lungs), Alcoholics (Liver), Druggies (All).

Everyone is fundamentally Selfish with Limited Tolerance.