News Forum - Thailand’s mask mandate still in place, violators face fines up to 20,000 baht – CCSA

[Guest1]

6 hours ago, mcambl61 said:

Masking must be stopped immediately. 

The ridiculous assertions that it is effective against a micron sized aerosol virus is sheer stupidity. 

Stop the ridiculous overreaction and fear mongering nonsense. 

Tell me, where was the influenza season, 20/21?

Or where is it, now?

[mcambl61]

Just now, Guest1 said:

Tell me, where was the influenza season, 20/21?

Or where is it, now?

Yes, where are all those cases. I was just at work in a foreign country and the camps and offices were full of the flu. 

 

But more importantly, do you have a salient point based in reality to make? 

[Smithydog]

Note from Moderators

Several unsupported posts have been identified as posing significant risk of members being mislead and have been removed.

Members would be wise to consider supporting their arguments with actual scientific studies rather than just rhetoric. Considering it is estimated there were over 150,000 such papers on Covid-19 in the last 12 months, I am confident you can find one to support your argument, whatever it may be.

Bold and unsupported rhetoric or attacks on other members will not be viewed favourably due to the high risk of being misleading in their content to other members. 

Thread will remain open for sensible and civil debate on the topic.

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[Guest1]

1 hour ago, Fundok said:

This virus is here to stay, like the influenza virus. We need to learn how to live with it and get our live and personal freedom back.

And with the influenza virus, we learned just something new, didn't we?

The Influenza season 20/21 did not happen. Because people did wear all this useless masks!

Aside, even if the mask is not 100% protecting yourself, others are protected from the direct stream of your breathing/sneezing.

Ever tried to blow out a candle, with one of this "useless masks'? Good luck trying!

[Guest1]

8 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

Yes, where are all those cases. I was just at work in a foreign country and the camps and offices were full of the flu. 

But more importantly, do you have a salient point based in reality to make? 

Ok, I go back to

 

[Lyp14 [ctxa]]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

distancing has never worked either since earliest studies prove the stuff travels eight meters in confined spaces….

They sure do, it shouldn't be rocket science that the farther away you are from someone the more difficult it is to get infected. 

And such, there is an study from Germany which proves that social-distancing policies alone were able to reduce COVID19 cases by up to 84%. 

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0257363

[Fundok]

1 hour ago, Guest1 said:

And with the influenza virus, we learned just something new, didn't we?

The Influenza season 20/21 did not happen. Because people did wear all this useless masks!

Aside, even if the mask is not 100% protecting yourself, others are protected from the direct stream of your breathing/sneezing.

Ever tried to blow out a candle, with one of this "useless masks'? Good luck trying!

True, all those things we do to avoid attracting Covid also prevent an influenza infection. But I doubt that wearing masks alone did the trick. Social distancing and frequent hand disinfection doubtlessly also contributed. I didn't say that masks are completely useless, just that many of the thin fabric tissue masks and masks not properly worn do not provide much protection. So wearing a mask may help, but it also may not or only very little.

[Saunk]

Looks like Cabra got triggered lol. Woke mob status at it's finest. 

[PapayaBokBok]

8 hours ago, mcambl61 said:

Sorry, but you are not qualified to determine who is credible. You have your opinion. 

It really does end there. 

But you have a good day and keep up the virtue signaling lectures. 

Your Avatar says all we need to now....You mad bro???..Cry More...

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, Fundok said:

True, all those things we do to avoid attracting Covid also prevent an influenza infection. But I doubt that wearing masks alone did the trick. Social distancing and frequent hand disinfection doubtlessly also contributed. I didn't say that masks are completely useless, just that many of the thin fabric tissue masks and masks not properly worn do not provide much protection. So wearing a mask may help, but it also may not or only very little.

Conclusion: Masks don’t help enough to justify wearing them with dehumanizing effects…….

[oldschooler]

4 minutes ago, PapayaBokBok said:

Your Avatar says all we need to now....You mad bro???..Cry More...

Ad Hominem messenger attack. Tactic of people unable to debate the case.

[BraveNewFahrenheit]

9 hours ago, mcambl61 said:

Masking must be stopped immediately. 

The ridiculous assertions that it is effective against a micron sized aerosol virus is sheer stupidity. 

Stop the ridiculous overreaction and fear mongering nonsense. 

As I was explaining to a Thai friend today, if the masks come off the pandemic starts to go away as people will not be aware that they should be afraid...the masks along with the fake news media keep the fear and hysteria going. Ever wonder why the new broadcasters in Thailand are wearing masks in the studio? It is messaging to the people.

[Stonker]

3 hours ago, Fundok said:

Partly true, as not everything that people use to cover their nose and mouth with is a FFP2 or FFP3

Sorry, but it's 100% true - maybe if you'd read the links and the studies you'd have seen that they weren't lab tests of FFP2 or 3 masks but real world mass studies of those wearing a variety of masks.

3 hours ago, Fundok said:

Those thin-layered do not provide for an appropriate protection. In addition, masks need to be worn properly, and I have witnessed a number of persons just covering their mouth which makes to protection void. So in theory, if everyone would wear their (single use) FF2-mask as prescribed, I agree with you. In practice, only a small minority is complying.

You've very obviously not read the links and studies and you've clearly completely missed the point of mass mask wearing.

They're not providing "protection" for the wearer but protection from the wearer, so even if the mask isn't worn properly, over the nose, it still provides a large amount of protection as it stops droplets from the mouth (coughing, talking, etc) that travel a lot more and in higher concentration than from the nose.

It's all in the studies as well as the easy to read media articles about them, but there's not much point giving them if you don't read them and don't understand what masks are for.

I'm sorry if this sounds brusque, but it's really frustrating having to repeat the same basic explanation over and over everytime this comes up.

3 hours ago, Fundok said:

 

 other question one must ask: seeing that Omikron is distinctively lee lethal than Delta - why not just let it go and let everyone infect themselves? 

 

Because while it's "less lethal" it's more infectious - so if, just for the sake of argument, 1,000 people were catching it before and ten were dying of it, now 10,000 people are catching it and ten are still dying.

The numbers dying haven't changed.

3 hours ago, Fundok said:

 

 More and more countries are now taking this approach (UK, Spain, Netherlands to name a few) which will provide large portions of the population with an immunisation.

 

Yes, and it's being shown not to work in those countries as despite Omikron being less lethal the same number of people are dying and being hospitalised as were dying and being hospitalised a month ago, with the UK having more Covid deaths than they've had since March last year.

I gave links to the UKHSA, UKNOS, worldometers and statista shoeing that yesterday, so hopefully I don't need to do so again but if I do then I'll give them tomorrow.

4 hours ago, Fundok said:

 

Those who have been vaccinated run an overseeable risk to end up in an ICU, and those notoriously refusing to get vaccinated may as well bear the consequences of their decision.

 

Fair enough, but while the unvaccinated bear the consequences of their own decisions, we all bear the consequences if people don't all mask up.

 

4 hours ago, Fundok said:

This virus is here to stay, like the influenza virus. We need to learn how to live with it and get our live and personal freedom back.

But it's not "like the influenza virus". Even Omikron is more lethal and far, far more infectious.

... and while you may want your "personal freedom back", what about the 5% of the population that are critically vulnerable and the 40% that are vulnerable*?

Don't they deserve some freedom too?

(*: definitive links also given yesterday, which if necessary again I can give tomorrow)

[BraveNewFahrenheit]

4 hours ago, Fundok said:

 

The other question one must ask: seeing that Omikron is distinctively lee lethal than Delta - why not just let it go and let everyone infect themselves? More and more countries are now taking this approach (UK, Spain, Netherlands to name a few) which will provide large portions of the population with an immunisation. Those who have been vaccinated run an overseeable risk to end up in an ICU, and those notoriously refusing to get vaccinated may as well bear the consequences of their decision.

This virus is here to stay, like the influenza virus. We need to learn how to live with it and get our live and personal freedom back.

Why not just let it go? Because as many of us have been saying for months, this is NOT about a virus, and it sure as hell is not about keeping people hEaLtHy & sAfE!!

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, ctxa said:

They sure do, it shouldn't be rocket science that the farther away you are from someone the more difficult it is to get infected. 

And such, there is an study from Germany which proves that social-distancing policies alone were able to reduce COVID19 cases by up to 84%. 

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0257363

Due to literally hundreds of variables that’s simply impossible to establish scientifically without a myriad of conditions and common sense impossible in cities or airports or any high density populated countries for example, where 6-8 mtr gaps to avoid transmission are again impossible. 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Fundok said:

I didn't say that masks are completely useless, just that many of the thin fabric tissue masks and masks not properly worn do not provide much protection. So wearing a mask may help, but it also may not or only very little.

Fer crissakes read the links or just try to understand that masks aren't there to "provide much protection" to the wearer - they protect others from the wearer.

[Guest1]

1 hour ago, Fundok said:

True, all those things we do to avoid attracting Covid also prevent an influenza infection. But I doubt that wearing masks alone did the trick. Social distancing and frequent hand disinfection doubtlessly also contributed. I didn't say that masks are completely useless, just that many of the thin fabric tissue masks and masks not properly worn do not provide much protection. So wearing a mask may help, but it also may not or only very little.

Even the thinnest "thing" in front of YOUR Mouth and nose, lets say a neck scarve, is giving your breathing and talking aerosol flow a wider and undirected movement.

That, with a bit more distance as in a full plane ;-), is rising chances, that others aren't breathing that right away.

So it is for you, with there aerosols. 

And in case, you are using a "better mask", ffp 2, kn95, n95, kf 94, ...., You are also rising your chances by yourself.

Plus for others.

As long you cover mouth AND nose 

 

And yes, I think too, that it is plain stupid, to wear a mask with no one near you, outdoors.

Just it is ordered to do so. And the locals are much more relaxed, if foreigner do so. 

Also the rising numbers of "sec pvr test positive"  cases is pointing to the fact, that masks may prevent extended holidays or quarantaene in the home country, after returning to it!

 

[Stonker]

"ALL western studies" DON'T "show insufficient or no benefit from std cloth masks" as I've shown by giving definitive links to large scale British and German studies that show the complete opposite, which I've given above and which I gave you the last time you claimed this.

What the western reports show that say that is that they offer little or no benefit for the wearer. Yet again, that's not what the mask mandates are for.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Faz
removed quote.

[Vigo]

Woohoo another pointless  argument over masks. Neither side will change its position, so why bother? The  reality is that there is a requirement to wear the masks for now. Don't wear one and take your chances in the Thai mask Lotto and enjoy the thrill.  For me, I am  happy many people wear a mask because some people have never covered their mouths when coughing or sneezing and if this prevents some of them from spraying others, its a good thing.  I wear an N95 when I go shopping. I ordered a big box a few months ago when the last wave subsided and prices came down. The quality of fit makes a big difference.

[oldschooler]

6 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Sorry, but it's 100% true - maybe if you'd read the links and the studies you'd have seen that they weren't lab tests of FFP2 or 3 masks but real world mass studies of those wearing a variety of masks.

You've very obviously not read the links and studies and you've clearly completely missed the point of mass mask wearing.

They're not providing "protection" for the wearer but protection from the wearer, so even if the mask isn't worn properly, over the nose, it still provides a large amount of protection as it stops droplets from the mouth (coughing, talking, etc) that travel a lot more and in higher concentration than from the nose.

It's all in the studies as well as the easy to read media articles about them, but there's not much point giving them if you don't read them and don't understand what masks are for.

I'm sorry if this sounds brusque, but it's really frustrating having to repeat the same basic explanation over and over everytime this comes up.

Because while it's "less lethal" it's more infectious - so if, just for the sake of argument, 1,000 people were catching it before and ten were dying of it, now 10,000 people are catching it and ten are still dying.

The numbers dying haven't changed.

Yes, and it's being shown not to work in those countries as despite Omikron being less lethal the same number of people are dying and being hospitalised as were dying and being hospitalised a month ago, with the UK having more Covid deaths than they've had since March last year.

I gave links to the UKHSA, UKNOS, worldometers and statista shoeing that yesterday, so hopefully I don't need to do so again but if I do then I'll give them tomorrow.

Fair enough, but while the unvaccinated bear the consequences of their own decisions, we all bear the consequences if people don't all mask up.

But it's not "like the influenza virus". Even Omikron is more lethal and far, far more infectious.

... and while you may want your "personal freedom back", what about the 5% of the population that are critically vulnerable and the 40% that are vulnerable*?

Don't they deserve some freedom too?

(*: definitive links also given yesterday, which if necessary again I can give tomorrow)

Everyone is “ vulnerable” but in western countries only one in four hundred absolutely die (one in four thousand in Thailand) and they are very old or very unfit /unvaxxed. If you are neither in the west your death odds from Covid are around the Thai absolute death rate of one in four thousand or so.

Anybody anywhere not now triple vaxxed and/or isolated must take their chances. The 99.75% total population who will not die demand our full lives back.We can no longer be shackled to the walking dead.

.

[Marc26]

5 hours ago, Fundok said:

I think the acceptance of the mask mandate would improve if one would see that there is an added benefit coming out of it. Those cheap mouth covers which according to my observation the vast majority is wearing is not preventing anything - neither not getting infected nor preventing the spreading of the virus in case the bearer is infected. What would be needed to be effective are so-called FFP2 or KN94 masks, but these are not cheap. Also, most masks are single use, but many (I admit: me too) use them more than just once which compromises their effectiveness.

And wearing a mask only makes sense inside and in outside places only if people cannot maintain social distancing. So this mandate is - in my eyes - to a large extent useless.

Ok, I understand, a mask mandate is a mask mandate and everyone needs to abide. However, isn't it a little bit like standing in front of a pedestrian crossing at midnight, the light showing red, and no traffic around whatsoever. Who would wait for the light turn to green before crossing the road?

Same with those masks. I am happy to wear them when it makes sense. But otherwise?

I would say the vast majority are wearing at least a 3 ply surgical mask

Which does offer decent protection

 

I think some uninformed people(not you) are confusing 3 ply masks as cloth masks, and they are not....

 

But this chart also shows you don't need to wear a mask outdoors when just passing by people, IMO

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cloth-face-mask-omicron-11640984082

 

 

[Stonker]

4 hours ago, DiJoDavO said:

The hot air I'm breathing out, constantly makes my glasses foggy, air gets out on top and on the side

If other people are as close to your mask as your glasses you'd have a fair point.

I doubt many are.

[Lyp14 [ctxa]]

10 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Everyone is “ vulnerable” but in western countries only one in four hundred absolutely die (one in four thousand in Thailand) and they are very old or very unfit /unvaxxed. If you are neither in the west your death odds from Covid are around the Thai absolute death rate of one in four thousand or so.

Anybody anywhere not now triple vaxxed and/or isolated must take their chances. The 99.75% total population who will not die demand our full lives back.We can no longer be shackled to the walking dead.

.

At your age, what makes you think you'd survive COVID? 

I'm barely in my mid twenties, vaccinated 4 times, I reckon it's very likely, almost guaranteed I would survive COVID. Yet if necessary, I'm willing to sacrifice a few fun years of my life, so that people like my grandpa (71) or yourself do not need to pass this disease. 

A lot of people take the fact that they will survive COVID for granted, when in fact they may not. Take a look at Meat Loaf for example. 

 

[Stonker]

21 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Due to literally hundreds of variables that’s simply impossible to establish scientifically without a myriad of conditions and common sense impossible in cities or airports or any high density populated countries for example, where 6-8 mtr gaps to avoid transmission are again impossible. 

If you read any of these studies and reports you may understand the point - if other people are wearing masks, you don't need a "6-8 metre gap to avoid transmission".

[Stonker]

17 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

But this chart also shows you don't need to wear a mask outdoors when just passing by people, IMO

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cloth-face-mask-omicron-11640984082

The chart and the article are specifically and only about how much protection masks give the wearer. That isn't what they're for here.

I'm not having a go at you, but how many times does this basic point have to be repeated?