News Forum - Pope Francis calls Covid-19 fake news a violation of human rights

[Saltire]

So along with the pandemic, any religious leader promoting a god now needs to fact check their existence or it's a violation of human rights?

Can't wait for the facts on this one.

Can't think of a bigger source of misinformation than the Church, all of them.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Saltire

[Stonker]

12 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

But they have to be. At least they have to pay lip service. Rome is not a democracy. 

Good luck telling a Jesuit or a Franciscan that they're the same as all other Catholics

[Stonker]

17 minutes ago, Faraday said:

You ever make the Pilgrimage to Lourdes?

That brings back memories.

I went there in 1976, as one of the British military contingent in the annual International Military Pilgrimage. 

Rather more boozing than blessing. 

[oldschooler]

4 hours ago, Saltire said:

So along with the pandemic, any religious leader promoting a god now needs to fact check their existence or it's a violation of human rights?

Can't wait for the facts on this one.

Can't think of a bigger source of misinformation than the Church, all of them.

Worse. Religion is Organized DISinformation. No sane educated adult could actually believe in it…oh but we separate Faith from Reason….well just don’t.

[mcambl61]

On 1/29/2022 at 7:25 PM, Rain said:

But then.....who decides and promotes what's fake and what's not? 

Unfortunately, many are trying to silence any dissent by calling anything that goes against their approved narratives "disinformation" 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Smithydog
Offensive and inflammatory remark removed

[Wanderer]

4 hours ago, Stonker said:

Good luck telling a Jesuit or a Franciscan that they're the same as all other Catholics

They all believe the wafer changes substance to become "literally, truly and substantially the Body of Christ.... while maintaining the properties of a wafer." According to the Council of Trent anyway. 

Sounds like the Emperor's New Clothes to me. 

[Rain]

18 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

Unfortunately, many are trying to silence any dissent by calling anything that goes against their approved narratives "disinformation" 

That is true fascism 

Indeed. 

Here, there and most everywhere. 

The great desire to protect and promote the fabricated convention is most evident.

[palooka]

28 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

They all believe the wafer changes substance to become "literally, truly and substantially the Body of Christ.

Bloody hell, they're cannibals then.

[palooka]

On 1/29/2022 at 7:07 PM, Thaiger said:

the Pope called it an infodemic, where people driven by fear peddle distorted or made-up news.

Plenty of that in Catholic history, "Spanish Inquistion" etc.

[Stonker]

26 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

They all believe the wafer changes substance to become "literally, truly and substantially the Body of Christ.... while maintaining the properties of a wafer." According to the Council of Trent anyway. 

Sounds like the Emperor's New Clothes to me. 

That's not what the Council of Trent said "they all believe" - that's what the Council of Trent said it meant, which is rather different.

According to studies, around two thirds of Catholics don't even know about transubstantiation, as the supposed change is called, and of those who do two thirds of them don't believe it.

I'm not defending it as a belief or as a sacrament as I think it's a seriously kooky idea, much as I do nearly everything about all the Abrahamic religions, but that doesn't make them all bad people or bad Catholics - it just means they're not in line to be Pope.

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, mcambl61 said:

Unfortunately, many are trying to silence any dissent by calling anything that goes against their approved narratives "disinformation" 

 

Unfortunately the extremists on both sides are driving people into one of two camps, with nothing in-between: 

Take your pick -as matron used to say at school when it was rock-cakes for tea.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Smithydog
Inflammatory material edited out

[Wanderer]

13 hours ago, Stonker said:

That's not what the Council of Trent said "they all believe" - that's what the Council of Trent said it meant, which is rather different.

According to studies, around two thirds of Catholics don't even know about transubstantiation, as the supposed change is called, and of those who do two thirds of them don't believe it.

I'm not defending it as a belief or as a sacrament as I think it's a seriously kooky idea, much as I do nearly everything about all the Abrahamic religions, but that doesn't make them all bad people or bad Catholics - it just means they're not in line to be Pope.

So what you are saying is they knowingly bow down to wafers and adore them as the host. I think that is actually worse than believing Trent. But I should not go on about this subject. 

I think that possibly I will enquire about this vacancy for a moderator. Perhaps we should apply as a committee. 

 

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Wanderer said:

So what you are saying is they knowingly bow down to wafers and adore them as the host. I think that is actually worse than believing Trent. 

No, that's not what I'm saying, but priests and those giving Holy Communion do "bow down" to the bread and wine for what they represent, just as Catholics "bow down" to a crucifix for what that represents even though it's only a piece of wood or a lump of stone or cement.

While I'm not a Catholic or a Christian, nor a believer in a 'God', it makes a lot of sense to those who are as it's a sign of respect like saluting an officer, or the colours, or the quarter-deck on boarding a ship - you're not saluting the individual, or a piece of embroidered cloth, or a bit of wood or metal, but what they each represent.

There may be times when that's not done or appropriate, but while it may be traditional or old fashioned I support it and don't see how anything can be wrong with that.

[Wanderer]

On 1/30/2022 at 9:08 PM, Stonker said:

 

According to studies, around two thirds of Catholics don't even know about transubstantiation, as the supposed change is called, and of those who do two thirds of them don't believe it.

I'm not defending it as a belief or as a sacrament as I think it's a seriously kooky idea, much as I do nearly everything about all the Abrahamic religions, but that doesn't make them all bad people or bad Catholics - it just means they're not in line to be Pope.

Thank you for your recent post stonks, I remembered the above but could not remember where from. 

I go on a few "theology discussion" sites where I will share that information but I will doubtless get shouted down for lack of a source. 

Although to be honest my experience of even lesser educated RCs is they are very well versed in the subject. Meanwhile they are all convinced that Henry VIII was a Protestant. 

But thanks again

[Wanderer]

On 1/31/2022 at 12:59 PM, Stonker said:

No, that's not what I'm saying, but priests and those giving Holy Communion do "bow down" to the bread and wine for what they represent, just as Catholics "bow down" to a crucifix for what that represents even though it's only a piece of wood or a lump of stone or cement.

While I'm not a Catholic or a Christian, nor a believer in a 'God', it makes a lot of sense to those who are as it's a sign of respect like saluting an officer, or the colours, or the quarter-deck on boarding a ship - you're not saluting the individual, or a piece of embroidered cloth, or a bit of wood or metal, but what they each represent.

There may be times when that's not done or appropriate, but while it may be traditional or old fashioned I support it and don't see how anything can be wrong with that.

No, cannot accept the first para.

In the RC Church, once consecrated the wafer does not "represent" the Body it has "literally, truly and substantially" become the body. Unequivocally, no room for debate. That is why some Protestants refer to them as wafer worshippers. 

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Wanderer said:

No, cannot accept the first para.

In the RC Church, once consecrated the wafer does not "represent" the Body it has "literally, truly and substantially" become the body. Unequivocally, no room for debate. That is why some Protestants refer to them as wafer worshippers. 

Sorry, but even within the Catholic church there's some debate about the exact point in time any transubstantiation takes place, and it's serious nit-picking. For some it's down to individual wafers, as the priest says 'the body of Christ'. 

 https://uscatholic.org/articles/201202/when-do-the-bread-and-wine-become-the-body-and-blood-of-christ-2/

[Stonker]

6 hours ago, Wanderer said:

Thank you for your recent post stonks, I remembered the above but could not remember where from. 

I go on a few "theology discussion" sites where I will share that information but I will doubtless get shouted down for lack of a source. 

Although to be honest my experience of even lesser educated RCs is they are very well versed in the subject. Meanwhile they are all convinced that Henry VIII was a Protestant. 

But thanks again

It was a Pew survey of US Catholics.

To be honest, I never even knew about transubstantiation as a belief until after I'd stopped being a Catholic, even though I did all the normal Sunday school bit, so I wouldn't be that surprised if the real numbers are even less now as it's a bit too mumbo-jumbo for many.

One of the funny things at Lourdes (in hindsight probably '77, not '76) was the numbers taking the waters home  "for a friend", but I'm sure it's the old story that if you believe, it can work.

I've been to a local 'layer on of hands' for my back, and while there he made a deaf teenager hear, for the first time in his life. Literally, right in front of me, and the only other people there were his family who'd brought him up from Bangkok and myself and my partner so it wasn't a stunt.

He's got a collection of discarded sticks and crutches too!

Some things, you just have to believe .

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/08/05/transubstantiation-eucharist-u-s-catholics/#:~:text=Transubstantiation – the idea that during,central to the Catholic faith.&text=But a new Pew Research,t believe this core teaching.

[Wanderer]

On 2/8/2022 at 7:20 PM, Stonker said:

It was a Pew survey of US Catholics.

To be honest, I never even knew about transubstantiation as a belief until after I'd stopped being a Catholic, even though I did all the normal Sunday school bit, so I wouldn't be that surprised if the real numbers are even less now as it's a bit too mumbo-jumbo for many.

One of the funny things at Lourdes (in hindsight probably '77, not '76) was the numbers taking the waters home  "for a friend", but I'm sure it's the old story that if you believe, it can work.

I've been to a local 'layer on of hands' for my back, and while there he made a deaf teenager hear, for the first time in his life. Literally, right in front of me, and the only other people there were his family who'd brought him up from Bangkok and myself and my partner so it wasn't a stunt.

He's got a collection of discarded sticks and crutches too!

Some things, you just have to believe .

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/08/05/transubstantiation-eucharist-u-s-catholics/#:~:text=Transubstantiation – the idea that during,central to the Catholic faith.&text=But a new Pew Research,t believe this core teaching.

So it is another thing that Rome wants everyone else to accept (or be put to death if they don't) while ignoring the fact that their own do not even believe it. 

But if you don't believe me please look it up in the Council of Trent. 

Goodnight, I try not to get started on the subject.