Why?

[Santa]

Why, when applying for a 'Marriage Extension/visa, do I have to show my children's birth certificates every year? I'm obtaining a 'Marriage Extension/visa based on marriage, pure and simple, not children. If I had no children would I be denied an extension based on marriage? The simple answer is 'no'. So why do they insist that I show the children's birth certificates and photo's of them in the house? Have I ever had to show my children to the IO in person? No. But I cannot get an extension unless I show their birth certificates and photo's. WTF is that all about?

Edited January 28, 2022 by Santa

[Faz]

How do they know you have children?

Do you deal with the IO in person in English, or do you let your wife do the talking in Thai?

[Santa]

22 minutes ago, Faz said:

How do they know you have children?

Because you have to declare them on a 'Marriage Extention/visa'.

22 minutes ago, Faz said:

Do you deal with the IO in person in English, or do you let your wife do the talking in Thai?

There's no talking to be done in Thai or English, you have to declare them. But as I've asked 'for what'? My eldest will be coming 15 next birthday. What age can I stop declaring them as the whole thing p***es me off.

[Santa]

Don't nobody go over and ask <edited name> as he says it's a back up to confirm you are actually married. WTF? I have a KR2 that confirms that.

[Pinetree]

Use an agent 

[Santa]

23 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Use an agent 

Why should I? I'm doing everything legal at a cost of 1,900 Baht. I do it illegal it costs me anything from 13,000 Baht upwards. Give me some credit. The reason I do everything legal is because having 3 children and I'm not prepared to chance rocking the band wagon. If under the table suits you then that's fine. But I toe the line.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Santa

[WilliamG]

12 hours ago, Santa said:

Because you have to declare them on a 'Marriage Extention/visa'.

There's no talking to be done in Thai or English, you have to declare them. But as I've asked 'for what'? My eldest will be coming 15 next birthday. What age can I stop declaring them as the whole thing p***es me off.

If declaring your children ONCE A YEAR pi**es you off, then stop letting it, there are much more important things to do that, like the price of bacon!  

[Santa]

35 minutes ago, WilliamG said:

If declaring your children ONCE A YEAR pi**es you off, then stop letting it

Easy enough to say. But do you have to do it? What I'm being asked to do is report, every year, the whereabouts of my children who are Thai nationals. Obviously Thais don't recognise luk krueng children as being Thai. Do Thais have to report where their children are living every year? Rules for one should be rules for all, not just farang.. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Santa

[Pinetree]

12 hours ago, Santa said:

Why should I? I'm doing everything legal at a cost of 1,900 Baht.

Because of your post issues, that's why. There is nothing illegal about using a legit agent, who navigates the inconsistencies found in ever immigration office and among all IOs. Frankly, its money well spent. But if you want to continue to beat yourself up dealing with this crap, that's your decision.

[WilliamG]

15 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

the inconsistencies found in ever immigration office and among all IOs

I never had any problem or inconsistencies at my IO in Phitsanulok so do not generalise too much.

[Pinetree]

On 1/29/2022 at 10:04 AM, WilliamG said:

I never had any problem or inconsistencies at my IO in Phitsanulok so do not generalise too much.

You're lucky mate, many have suffered under such inconsistences and the various Thai forums are full of such examples. Its not a generalisation, more a fact of life here. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Faz
removed reference to forum.

[Santa]

39 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

There is nothing illegal about using a legit agent, who navigates the inconsistencies found in ever immigration office and among all IOs.

So an agent and the immigration office are doing nothing wrong when they illegally bypass the rules appertaining to the deposited sum required for ones extension visa? In fact, if you can recall, 'Big Joke' banned all agents from Thailand's immigration offices. And why would that be?

https://assets.aseannow.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2019_02/10-62.jpg.294075bcc7137834f2add217d293f903.jpg

[Pinetree]

9 minutes ago, Santa said:

So an agent and the immigration office are doing nothing wrong when they illegally bypass the rules appertaining to the deposited sum required for ones extension visa?

Mine does not do that, many do not do that. 

[Santa]

29 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Mine does not do that, many do not do that. 

So please tell me how can it be legal to obtain an annual extension visa whereby the IO doesn't need to see the applicant in person? By using an agent you could be registered as living in Thailand, let's say, for 30 years and you never need to set foot in a IO. Now I'd say that can't be legal.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Santa

[Faz]

On 1/28/2022 at 7:48 PM, Santa said:

There's no talking to be done in Thai or English, you have to declare them.

There is nowhere on the TM7 to add, nor does it request details other than your own.
At the bottom of the form you state the reason for your application  'Married to Thai national'.

You supply a KR2 as proof of marriage.
The financial requirements also differs based on applying for reason of Thai spouse or for children.

The root of your situation goes back to your first extension application IMHO, the 'reason' stated and the financial evidence on hand at that time, you appear to be registered in their system as applying based on 'Thai family', rather than 'Thai spouse'.

[Santa]

2 hours ago, Faz said:

At the bottom of the form you state the reason for your application  'Married to Thai national'.

And that is what I've done since day one. Originally I did 'Retirement Extensions' until they changed the financial requirements needed for staying here. Then I changed to 'Marriage Extension'. Thinking back I can't remember if I had to produce my kids ID's when on a 'Retirement Extension'. May be I've only had to produce my kids ID docs and photo's since then? But still, the IO would have told me/us that my kids ID's and photo's weren't needed for an extension based on marriage. But no. It's plain, in their face, that I supply a KR2 and both 'marriage certificates' and I'm sitting there with my wife who has had to fill out documents requested for a 'Marriage Extension'. But they still want the children's docs.

On this website it says

Quote

To apply for your visa extension based on marriage to a Thai national, you need to prepare and submit the following:

Quote

· Children’s birth certificates (if applicable)

https://thailawonline.com/en/thai-laws/faq/41-family-law/409-extension-based-on-family.html

Sorry if I come across argumentative. Surely I can't be the only person in this situation? 

[Santa]

Quote

1. Visa Extension Form (TM.7)
2. Passport or Travel Documents
3. Non-Immigrant Visa
4. Marriage Certificate.(If from abord have to certified by The Embassy or Consulate in Thailand) and Certificate of family, Certificate of marriage.
5. Thai wife ‘s I.D. Card
6. House register of Thai wife
7. Children ‘s Birth Certificate
8. Letter from Thai Bank certified money in thai account (Alien’s Name) more than 400,000 Baht 2 months before, bank book and ATM slip on date of application OR
9. Income or Pension have to certified by The Embassy or Consulate in Thailand and Show income more than 40,000 Baht/month
10. Map to Home
11. Family Photo

So where/when do you declare you have children? Obviously they must ask?

Edited February 2, 2022 by Santa

[Faz]

1 hour ago, Santa said:

But no. It's plain, in their face, that I supply a KR2 and both 'marriage certificates' and I'm sitting there with my wife who has had to fill out documents requested for a 'Marriage Extension'. But they still want the children's docs.

'and I'm sitting there with my wife who has had to fill out documents requested for a 'Marriage Extension'.'

This goes back to my first question 'who' completed the form and who 'spoke' to the IO.
On your first application did your wife state for reason of 'Thai spouse' or 'Thai family'. There were probably questions spoken in Thai between the IO and your wife of which you had no idea what was said.

I have no idea if you provided children's birth certificates for the first application and if so why if you were applying based on Thai spouse? What form of proof of meeting the financial requirements did you supply?

1 hour ago, Santa said:

https://thailawonline.com/en/thai-laws/faq/41-family-law/409-extension-based-on-family.html

That's a commercial website and they give an overview only of applying based on either Thai spouse or Thai family. The clue is in the link 'extension based on family' (not specifically Thai spouse) hence in brackets, 'children's birth certificates' (if applicable). E.G applying based on Thai family.

You may have a rogue office and the only way to find out is to state which office your submitting your application and ask other members if when applying for an extension based on marriage are they asked about children or request birth certificates of children.

I also apply for extensions of stay based on marriage but I complete the application form and speak to the IO's in English. Never has the question of children been raised.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Faz
typo

[poohy]

13 minutes ago, Faz said:

You may have a rouge office

Do they wear lipstick then ?

i think you mean Rogue

[Faz]

1 hour ago, Santa said:

So where/when do you declare you have children? Obviously they must ask?

You would declare children if you were applying on the basis of Thai family. There is a difference between the financial requirement based on Thai family (children) and Thai spouse.
327-2557 (2014) - Criteria for extension ENG.pdf 

Section 2.18> In the case of being a family member of a Thai national (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted children, or spouse’s children).
The financial difference between applying based on the parent or spouse of a Thai national is thus:

5). In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds of no less than Baht 400,000 to cover expenses for one year. Funds only required on the day of application.

(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year. 

It's also possible that on the first application that for some reason you didn't meet the financial requirements based on Thai spouse, but did based on Thai family (children).
I can only speculate as I have no idea what you provided and what was stated.

This is a document checklist I have provided to members numerous times as a guide to documents requested for applications based on Thai spouse (note no mention of children).
Docs Extension of Stay based on Marriage.odt 

I've never had one member return stating their IO asked or requested children's birth certificates.

It's apparent that whatever the reason you appear to have applied based on Thai family.
You can change the reason to 'Thai spouse' on your next application provided you meet the financial requirements and can supply an updated Kor Ror 2 or 22 and your wife attends the application.
If you have any issues request to speak to the senior IO.

 

[Faz]

24 minutes ago, poohy said:

Do they wear lipstick then ?

i think you mean Rogue

One never knows knows in Thailand @poohy 

Speel check never catches those typo errors - thank you. (Deliberate misspell of 'spell' by the way).

[Santa]

13 minutes ago, Faz said:

It's apparent that whatever the reason you appear to have applied based on Thai family.
You can change the reason to 'Thai spouse' on your next application provided you meet the financial requirements and can supply an updated Kor Ror 2 or 22 and your wife attends the application.
If you have any issues request to speak to the senior IO.

Have just checked my passports, old and latest, and my last 3 extensions have been issued for having a 'Thai wife'. No mention of 'Thai family'. Upon checking my passports back to 2005 the reason for my extension was only first stamped in my passport dated on 30 Nov 2010 as 'Thai Wife'. No reason given prior to that year.

My method of finances is 'cash in a Thai bank' for 2 months prior to application.

It would have been interesting if others, with children, had contributed to this thread.

Anyways I thank you for your interest and advice and I will take the matter up with my IO when I visit them next. Hopefully I'll remember to post on how I get on.

[Faz]

26 minutes ago, Santa said:

Anyways I thank you for your interest and advice and I will take the matter up with my IO when I visit them next. Hopefully I'll remember to post on how I get on.

Don't assume that all IO's are 'competent' and knowledgeable with their own rules.
Insist on speaking to the senior officer and have a copy of the 'orders' on hand to state your case.

There is no reason for children to be involved whatsoever when applying based on Thai spouse.