News Forum - Thailand News Today | New Test & Go program draws huge criticism!

[gazmo16]

22 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

I think Stonker's main point is correct 

I think if you took a poll of all Thai, the majority would be favor of these restrictions 

I personally don't know one Thai that isn’t in favor of strict restrictions 

So as people on a forum shout and scream at how stupid the Thai government is

I believe most of their citizens agree with them 

Sadly I think a poll wouldn't show much as generally Thais are brought up not to show dissent openly . Lets be honest they have plenty to be upset about between the distribution of wealth (Bavaria) and the all powerful Uncle TU who does as he pleases with his policies. 

The country has lurch from one bad policy to another around Covid and reopening restrictions but demonstrations are almost non existent. Can you imagine any Western country staying so quite ?

[Fundok]

Just now, Marc26 said:

I think Stonker's main point is correct 

I think if you took a poll of all Thai, the majority would be favor of these restrictions 

I personally don't know one Thai that isn’t in favor of strict restrictions 

So as people on a forum shout and scream at how stupid the Thai government is

I believe most of their citizens agree with them 

Fair enough to state that the majority of Thais is for stricter rules (is thetr any empiric evidence or just a gut feeling?). But what does this mean?

Being professionally involved in risk detection and mitigation (I work for aan insurance company) one first needs to identify a risk and put a "price tag" on it (likelyhood of occurence and the severity of the impact). With this, you start to devise mitigating measures. This all said, we need to look at the risks that tourist pose with regards to Covid. Everyone needs to be vaccinated twice, have a negative PCR-test before boarding and another one upon arrival. Does this mean they are a zero risk? No. But the remaining risk that a few remain undetected infected and may slip through is neglible. In fact, I believe that the likelihood to get infected while in TH is substantially higher than the risk imposed ny those "undetected infected".

Maybe this explains why I have been critical of the moves of the Thai authorities in this regard. For sure, I did not want to be disrespectful, but critical, yes. Together with my Thai wife we (both 3x vaccinated) have spent 2 x 7'000 THB for testing only, and I really don't think that this really achieved what should be achieved, so especially the 2nd test after 5 days is nothing but a waste of time and money.

I don't object Thais wanting stricter measures. But maybe, from a risk point of view, we tourists are not the real problem.

 

[Fundok]

21 minutes ago, Stevejm said:

I wouldn’t necessarily say that Switzerland has got it right and having 3 jabs is no guarantee that you can’t get infected. Testing might help prevent or slow the import of as yet unknown variants.The whole world will get it sorted hopefully soon but for the time being suffering inconvenience is a price we will have to pay if we insist on traveling internationally. 2100 Baht is a pretty cheap price for a pcr test

Three vaccination jabs still mean you can get infected, true. But the likelihood of getting infected is significantly lower as is the impact. It also means that you are much less likely to spread the virus.

Costwise, 3 tests cost me 55€ (in Austria) and 2 x 2'100 THB, so about 7'000 THB which I don't find cheap. Btw: at Zurich airport the PCR-test is 190 CHF which is almost 7'000 THB - for one person!

I am of course fully endorsing the spreading of the virus, I just question if the current regime, as administered by the Thai authorities, is serving this purpose. Especially the 2nd test or the requirement to stay in a SHA+ hotel for seven days  do not appear to make much sense. Like, if my 2nd test was negative, why to I have to stay in the SHA+ hotel for two more days? Shouldn't I be free after the negative 2nd test straight away? And what purpose does the 2nd test serve? If I was indeed an "undiscovered infected" upon my arrival in Thailand, I had ample time to infect others, so the damage (import of the virus) has been done already.

However, if this 2nd test is meant to be a preventive measure to generally identify infected tourists (including those who got infected after their arrival in Thailand) then this measure falls too short, as I could infect myself after the 2nd test and remain undiscovered. And of course, this is now also a change of the aim: itbis not about the prevention of the "import" of the virus, but to prevent its spreading in Thailand, irrespective if I imported it or got infected here 

This is the point I try to make: the current regime appears not to be thought through very well and isnnot cohesive in my eyes. The same is true for the general obligation to wear masks outside. From a risk point of view it makes a difference if I walk by myself on a deserted beach or on a crowded place like Bangla road (well, just relatively crowded these days). So the universal "masks everywhere"-approach does not appear to serve the purpose. But again, that's just me.

[Fundok]

1 hour ago, Marc26 said:

I think Stonker's main point is correct 

I think if you took a poll of all Thai, the majority would be favor of these restrictions 

I personally don't know one Thai that isn’t in favor of strict restrictions 

So as people on a forum shout and scream at how stupid the Thai government is

I believe most of their citizens agree with them 

PS. I am not sure if Switzerland is doing the right thing here either, but seeing that Omikron is now the dominant strain now further (substantial) harm is done if another infected person comes in the country. Still there are measures in place like home office and weekly testing. But in essence, the point I wanted to make is that there are other ways of handling this, presumably more pragmatic and also less cumbersome and expensive, without completely compromising the purpose of battling the virus.

I somehow suspect that tourists are stigmatised as a sort of scapegoat for failures in Thailands battle against Covid (starting with the late commencement of the vaccinations) where the handful of infected visitors pales against other spreader groups such as Birmese and Laos illegal immigrants. But it is of course easier to put the blame on the Farang and implement tough rules for them. And the public perception is of course that the tourists are the root cause...

[LoongFred]

9 minutes ago, Fundok said:

PS. I am not sure if Switzerland is doing the right thing here either, but seeing that Omikron is now the dominant strain now further (substantial) harm is done if another infected person comes in the country. Still there are measures in place like home office and weekly testing. But in essence, the point I wanted to make is that there are other ways of handling this, presumably more pragmatic and also less cumbersome and expensive, without completely compromising the purpose of battling the virus.

I somehow suspect that tourists are stigmatised as a sort of scapegoat for failures in Thailands battle against Covid (starting with the late commencement of the vaccinations) where the handful of infected visitors pales against other spreader groups such as Birmese and Laos illegal immigrants. But it is of course easier to put the blame on the Farang and implement tough rules for them. And the public perception is of course that the tourists are the root cause...

What are you talking about? The covid rates in Thailand have been kept low, not like in Europe and America. You may not agree with Thailand's approach but it what the Thais want. They don't do it to please you or other foreigners. The Swiss  can do what they believe is best, but Thailand doesn't have to follow them. 

As foreigners we must realize Thais will do what they feel best and our choice is to follow along or leave. We don't make the rules.  In fact the rules worldwide have changed numerous times, so there are no agreed clear paths forward. Complaining is not helping  anyone at this point. 

[Stevejm]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

I think you are correct - and that is why the Junta is continually trying to encourage tourists - while at the same time being very tough on them to 'protect the Thai people'. 

But that is not the point.  The point is that the rules are not going to attract that many tourists, because the risk of a positive test is very high (and getting higher), and the downsides are far too harsh.  

My extended Thai circle of family and friends in Thailand is generally against total relaxation. But that is because they were told by the Junta Govt that it was the foreigners that were bringing in the virus and spreading it around.  On one hand the Junta has been saying - come come Thailand open - but on the other hand they are saying -  foreigners are causing all the problems - but it is not us Thais or the unvaccinated 'illegals' coming over the borders from Laos, Myanmar, Malaysia and Cambodia for work and to visit families and for other reasons (drugs etc.).

I don’t think anyone thinks that the spread of the virus within Thailand is due to foreigners and nothing to do with Thai people. Thailand and other countries in Asia have done much better at controlling Covid than many countries in the west partly because people actually have consideration for others and followed recommendations to wear masks since January 2020 when the first case outside China was reported in Thailand.Even before the pandemic when I was working people with a cold who came to work used to wear masks to avoid spreading the germs. Meanwhile back in my home country people have been whining from day one about the inconvenience of wearing masks and various restrictions. Recommendations were ignored from day 1 including by the political leadership. How did that work out for them? Having said all that the foreigners walking round Phuket without masks on don’t reflect well

Edited January 23, 2022 by Stevejm

[Fundok]

9 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

What are you talking about? The covid rates in Thailand have been kept low, not like in Europe and America. You may not agree with Thailand's approach but it what the Thais want. They don't do it to please you or other foreigners. The Swiss  can do what they believe is best, but Thailand doesn't have to follow them. 

As foreigners we must realize Thais will do what they feel best and our choice is to follow along or leave. We don't make the rules.  In fact the rules worldwide have changed numerous times, so there are no agreed clear paths forward. Complaining is not helping  anyone at this point. 

The question is: were the Covid rate low in Thailand because of putting all those rules in place? Or maybe because not much testing was done so the number of infected people have been understated?

Surely the Thai government is at liberty to determine what it deem best for the country to battle Covid, no question about that. But if they also wish to incentivise tourist to come and leave $$$ here then I (being a tourist who has travelled to many countries within and outside Europe) do not believe Thailand will succeed. Do I whine or complain? Do I demand that TH should follow Switzerland? No, by any means. But I believe Thailand is well advised to take a look around the world and to reflect if their way is really the way to go. 

All I can say that actually the policy pursued with regards to visitors dies not seem to work. I went to the Anusarn Night Market in Chiang Mai where I have been numerous times before Covid. I was truly shocked to see how many small businesses had closed down and even more, how few tourists were around. The photo was taken yesterday evening (Saturday), around 19:00. Usually by this time the place is crowded, but yesterday hardly any visitors werr around. With this in mind, the Phuket Sandbox may pay off for Phuket, but certainly not for places like Chiang Mai. And I doubt that the new program will do much to improve the situation. But hey, as we both agree, it is solely up to Thailand what best to do; how can I as a Farang dare to question the wisdon of the Thai government? 

[gundam0315]

2 hours ago, gundam0315 said:

i said it before, it's a cash cow from the government to milk tourist insurance money.  Who really knows if these poor asymptomatic tourists are really positive?  Tourists are fully vaccinated (most with boosters, and test prior to departure, are at the mercy of the host country and their rules, they are trying to make up for loses from no tourism the past 1.5 years.  It's just another scam if you ask me.

members of the government have connections to the hospitals and hotels and have their hand in the profits they generate from them.  There is no way they don't make any profit from any of this.  

[Stevejm]

12 minutes ago, gundam0315 said:

members of the government have connections to the hospitals and hotels and have their hand in the profits they generate from them.  There is no way they don't make any profit from any of this.  

That may be a common theme in politics worldwide. Look at the corruption scandals pending investigation in UK at the moment where politically connected companies with no prior experience were awarded no bid contracts by the government. If politically connected hospitals and hotels benefited from government policy decisions then it would be hard to prove but at least the employees and suppliers got some benefit.

[smedly]

On 1/22/2022 at 1:44 AM, CharlesW said:

Not only is the 5th day test pointless, (you’ve already had 2 negative tests one pre flight one on arrival) most likely if you test positive on the 5th

it allows time to get infected in Thailand through local transmission (with omicron is rampant), if positive  you are then in a whole pile of hurt with holiday ruined, just look at how they report detected infections in Phuket - local and from abroad the latter meaning tested positive during the first 7 days after arrival

is it a scam ?, well the only people who are 100% tested 2x times are foreigners and home isolation is not an option................you decide

[Stevejm]

1 hour ago, Fundok said:

The question is: were the Covid rate low in Thailand because of putting all those rules in place? Or maybe because not much testing was done so the number of infected people have been understated?

Surely the Thai government is at liberty to determine what it deem best for the country to battle Covid, no question about that. But if they also wish to incentivise tourist to come and leave $$$ here then I (being a tourist who has travelled to many countries within and outside Europe) do not believe Thailand will succeed. Do I whine or complain? Do I demand that TH should follow Switzerland? No, by any means. But I believe Thailand is well advised to take a look around the world and to reflect if their way is really the way to go. 

All I can say that actually the policy pursued with regards to visitors dies not seem to work. I went to the Anusarn Night Market in Chiang Mai where I have been numerous times before Covid. I was truly shocked to see how many small businesses had closed down and even more, how few tourists were around. The photo was taken yesterday evening (Saturday), around 19:00. Usually by this time the place is crowded, but yesterday hardly any visitors werr around. With this in mind, the Phuket Sandbox may pay off for Phuket, but certainly not for places like Chiang Mai. And I doubt that the new program will do much to improve the situation. But hey, as we both agree, it is solely up to Thailand what best to do; how can I as a Farang dare to question the wisdon of the Thai government? 

The comment about the number of cases is valid but applies to any country. I can only speak from a position of knowledge about UK and Thailand but I observe that people in UK have never taken mask wearing and basic preventative measures seriously whereas people in Thailand have even before mandatory mask mandate came in . UK also benefited from earlier and wider vaccination roll out I do see a trend in the difference between cumulative cases between the two countries. The question is is the difference due to the testing extent or does it reflect reality?

Edited January 23, 2022 by Stevejm

[Stevejm]

3 minutes ago, smedly said:

it allows time to get infected in Thailand through local transmission (with omicron is rampant), if positive  you are then in a whole pile of hurt with holiday ruined, just look at how they report detected infections in Phuket - local and from abroad the latter meaning tested positive during the first 7 days after arrival

is it a scam ?, well the only people who are 100% tested 2x times are foreigners and home isolation is not an option................you decide

I thought the second test was mandatory for all arrivals including Thai citizens. Am I wrong?

[Fundok]

10 minutes ago, Stevejm said:

I thought the second test was mandatory for all arrivals including Thai citizens. Am I wrong?

My Thai wife had to take the same test than me on day 4 on Phuket. Also (surprisingly) the test for her was the same as for me - no Thai rebate or Farang add-on.

[Stonker]

5 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Stonker - stop being aggressive abusive and contradictory or you and me will stop talking again mate.

That's a bit of an empty tghreat, as it can only ever be one-sided.

 

5 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Yes Thailand people do need tourism, it is the single greatest driver behind the 'real' workers economy and creates far more jobs and money circulation than anything else in the country. 

That's simply untrue. Whatever you mean by the " 'real' workers economy", it produces far less and to far less people than factory production and a similar amount to the agricultuyres sector which employs and supports far more people.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/331893/share-of-economic-sectors-in-the-gdp-in-thailand/

You can find similar confirmation at any reliable source.  What you're saying is simply a myth, constantly banged by those who've learnt all they know about Thailand from those in the bars in Pattaya and Phuket whose sole interest is themselves and emptying their customers' wallets. it keeps all involved happy, but for the rest of Thailand it's not so much a myth as a joke at the gullible farangs' expense.

6 hours ago, AussieBob said:

In Phuket is is absolutely critical, but right across Thailand many millions of the 'lower' workers are struggling - not because there are fewer farming and manufacturing jobs, but because all the flow-ons from tourism (local and international) has basically stopped. Downstream issues from tourism in Thailand, is far more beneficial than building massives railways/projects, to ordinary Thais.

Phuket and Pattaya are the prime tourism destinations, but they make up less than ten percent of the population. Your "flow ons" are simply a myth - see above. You've fallen for the bar girl story about the sick buffalo and the broken tractor - it simply doesn't happen. Money 'home', the "flow-ons", come from children working in factories and construction, not in the bars - that's why some are struggling now, as production and overtime have been reduced.

Most Thais couldn't care less about foreign tourism as they don't depend on it or get anything from it - as i've said repeatedly, look at the numbers protesting about it - zero.

6 hours ago, AussieBob said:

And lastly - the protests are all younger disgruntles complaining about the Junta and the Thai Laws that they want changed. Nothing whatsoever to do with tourism. Otherwise there would be demonstrations against the re-opening of tourism into the country. Not a related issue.

You clearly don't watch as much Thai news as you imagine if you think that's all the protests in the last two years have been by and about.

 

[Stonker]

3 hours ago, gazmo16 said:

Sadly I think a poll wouldn't show much as generally Thais are brought up not to show dissent openly . Lets be honest they have plenty to be upset about between the distribution of wealth (Bavaria) and the all powerful Uncle TU who does as he pleases with his policies. 

The country has lurch from one bad policy to another around Covid and reopening restrictions but demonstrations are almost non existent. Can you imagine any Western country staying so quite ?

Oh please ... are you somehow unaware of the red / yellow shirt confrontations, and what has amounted to near civil war in Bangkok over the last few decades?

Have you gone to any city hall in Issan when policies have been changed that are unpopular, such as changing lottery sales recently?

[Stonker]

4 hours ago, Fundok said:

I don't object Thais wanting stricter measures. But maybe, from a risk point of view, we tourists are not the real problem.

I don't know how many times this has to be repeated.  You "tourists" have never been "the real problem" - the problem has always been tourism and what it needs to drive it: no mask wearing, entertainment open, unrestricted travel, and full service support.

You tourists aren't the problem - what you need is the problem.

[Stonker]

52 minutes ago, smedly said:

is it a scam ?, well the only people who are 100% tested 2x times are foreigners and home isolation is not an option................you decide

Completely incorrect.

Arriving Thais are tested on exactly the same basis as arriving foreigners, and home isolation is an option for foreigners just as it is for Thais.

The distinction is never by nationality - it's purely and strictly by when and how you arrive, regardless of whether you're a "foreigner" or a Thai.

[Stevejm]

6 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Completely incorrect.

Arriving Thais are tested on exactly the same basis as arriving foreigners, and home isolation is an option for foreigners just as it is for Thais.

The distinction is never by nationality - it's purely and strictly by when and how you arrive, regardless of whether you're a "foreigner" or a Thai.

That’s what I thought. Looking at the latest Test and Go requirements the only distinction between Thais and foreigners is the requirement for health insurance. However foreigners  working here who are covered by the health system due to paying social security contributions are also excused from buying additional health insurance.

[smedly]

55 minutes ago, Stevejm said:

I thought the second test was mandatory for all arrivals including Thai citizens. Am I wrong?

yes I should have said foreign arrivals - but remember that once you land and have the first test on day 1 IMO you are then a local and should be treated as such, consider the spread of omicron in Phuket (or anywhere) and ask yourself what are the chances of catching this highly infectious virus - it must be just as high as any local who are not tested - that is a huge risk IMO considering what happens if you test positive - in Phuket there are almost 200 every day in the "from abroad" category - that is a huge number of people who are being infected and force quarantined at their own expense

[Stevejm]

15 minutes ago, smedly said:

yes I should have said foreign arrivals - but remember that once you land and have the first test on day 1 IMO you are then a local and should be treated as such, consider the spread of omicron in Phuket (or anywhere) and ask yourself what are the chances of catching this highly infectious virus - it must be just as high as any local who are not tested - that is a huge risk IMO considering what happens if you test positive - in Phuket there are almost 200 every day in the "from abroad" category - that is a huge number of people who are being infected and force quarantined at their own expense

Thais are also required to do the day 5 test. I don’t think that the prevalence of covid in Thailand is higher than say UK. Due to the incubation period of covid there is no certainty that the infection was picked up here rather than at home. The only sure way to avoid getting stuck in quarantine is to stay at home and not travel.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Stevejm

[Stonker]

12 minutes ago, smedly said:

yes I should have said foreign arrivals - but remember that once you land and have the first test on day 1 IMO you are then a local and should be treated as such, consider the spread of omicron in Phuket (or anywhere) and ask yourself what are the chances of catching this highly infectious virus - it must be just as high as any local who are not tested - that is a huge risk IMO considering what happens if you test positive - in Phuket there are almost 200 every day in the "from abroad" category - that is a huge number of people who are being infected and force quarantined at their own expense

You'd have been just as wrong - it's ALL arrivals, foreign or Thai.

[AussieBob]

40 minutes ago, Stonker said:

That's a bit of an empty tghreat, as it can only ever be one-sided.

That's simply untrue. Whatever you mean by the " 'real' workers economy", it produces far less and to far less people than factory production and a similar amount to the agricultuyres sector which employs and supports far more people.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/331893/share-of-economic-sectors-in-the-gdp-in-thailand/

You can find similar confirmation at any reliable source.  What you're saying is simply a myth, constantly banged by those who've learnt all they know about Thailand from those in the bars in Pattaya and Phuket whose sole interest is themselves and emptying their customers' wallets. it keeps all involved happy, but for the rest of Thailand it's not so much a myth as a joke at the gullible farangs' expense.

Phuket and Pattaya are the prime tourism destinations, but they make up less than ten percent of the population. Your "flow ons" are simply a myth - see above. You've fallen for the bar girl story about the sick buffalo and the broken tractor - it simply doesn't happen. Money 'home', the "flow-ons", come from children working in factories and construction, not in the bars - that's why some are struggling now, as production and overtime have been reduced.

Most Thais couldn't care less about foreign tourism as they don't depend on it or get anything from it - as i've said repeatedly, look at the numbers protesting about it - zero.

You clearly don't watch as much Thai news as you imagine if you think that's all the protests in the last two years have been by and about.

Wasted my time for the last time............ moving on back to reality.

[smedly]

12 minutes ago, Stonker said:

You'd have been just as wrong - it's ALL arrivals, foreign or Thai.

Jesus christ - how about all arrivals from foreign countries are you now getting it

 

been a member here for about an hour and someone close to going on my ignore list already

[Stonker]

2 minutes ago, smedly said:

Jesus christ - how about all arrivals from foreign countries are you now getting it

been a member here for about an hour and someone close to going on my ignore list already

I don't want to make you feel unwelcome, anything but, but you seemed intent on making it appear that there's a difference in how foreign and Thai arrivals are treated with regard to Covid testing and things Covid related such as home isolation for Thais and foreigners when there isn't.

I'm sorry if that appeared to be as if I was singling you out for criticism, but unfortunately these accusations of racism, scams and discrimination are all too frequent here and they're unfounded and it gets rather tedious constantly pointing it out.

[Poolie]

9 minutes ago, smedly said:

Jesus christ - how about all arrivals from foreign countries are you now getting it

been a member here for about an hour and someone close to going on my ignore list already

Yeah, well you're a bundle of fun on the other boards as well.