Kratom

[Faraday]

Recently, Kratom has been decriminalised & is now a legal herb.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2169411/kratom-now-listed-as-legal-herb

My son bought a small bag of the leaves just before Christmas, boiled them up & strained it. He added a packet a Lipton Tea to make it palatable, otherwise it tastes bitter.

I drink a small glass of it - 150 ml or so, & it gives a very good night's sleep, without the 'hangover' that some compounds can give.

It also is a great pain reliever. I get the backache, leg aches etc, & drinking Kratom occasionally, makes it go away.

I've inserted a link from a drug abuse website. I think that Kratom is like any other drug if used 'sensibly' & not abused or refined so that one gets a huge dose of it, which then causes health issues.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/kratom 

 

 

 

 

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[HolyCowCm]

Easy to buy at too many places in CM now. The stuff is interesting but the down side is reading it could do kidney damage.

[Vince]

3 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

Easy to buy at too many places in CM now. The stuff is interesting but the down side is reading it could do kidney damage.

Source? Is it dosage related? 

Are there dialysis clinics filled with Kratom addicts? 

[HolyCowCm]

38 minutes ago, Vince said:

Source? Is it dosage related? 

Are there dialysis clinics filled with Kratom addicts? 

Just go online and read about it and choose several different articles not just one. Try to get your own perspective. Probably related to abuse and overuse. And as I did state I wrote could do, so if your kidneys are not faring so well to begin with then you might want to pass on it or dilute it by boiling rather than sucking on the leaves themselves.

[Vince]

On 1/19/2022 at 10:17 PM, HolyCowCm said:

Just go online and read about it and choose several different articles not just one. Try to get your own perspective. Probably related to abuse and overuse. And as I did state I wrote could do, so if your kidneys are not faring so well to begin with then you might want to pass on it or dilute it by boiling rather than sucking on the leaves themselves.

@HolyCowCm

The first link I found suggests it's not a problem in small doses:

https://kratomguides.com/can-kratom-use-cause-problems-liver-kidneys/

2nd link:

"Liver and Kidney Damage: When used for a long time in high doses"

https://medmark.com/the-dangers-of-using-kratom-regularly/

3rd:

"In reading the literature describing the cultural uses of kratom in southern Thailand and Malaysia, we have found no mention of liver or kidney disease among this population that drink kratom tea or chew the fresh leaves daily. On the contrary, these people seem capable of very hard work in difficult conditions of heat and humidity.

https://naturalnewsblogs.com/effect-kratom-liver-kidneys/

My search:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=does+kratom+destroy+your+kidneys&t=brave&ia=web

I would conclude you are wrong or correct but misleading since you don't mention overdose/dosage and duration. 

 

 

[Santa]

I read that Kratom had/has many benefits. I won't go into my medical problems but I tried some. I ate/chewed it and also made tea from it but, I have to be honest, it did nowt for me. I dunno if I did anything wrong in my preparation or doseage. I was so hyped up when I first read the benefits of the plant that I planted a sapling in me garden. For what?  May be I need to try again after getting advice on a forum?   

[Vince]

20 hours ago, Santa said:

I read that Kratom had/has many benefits. I won't go into my medical problems but I tried some. I ate/chewed it and also made tea from it but, I have to be honest, it did nowt for me. I dunno if I did anything wrong in my preparation or doseage. I was so hyped up when I first read the benefits of the plant that I planted a sapling in me garden. For what?  May be I need to try again after getting advice on a forum?   

Can you detail your experiences? 

Was the Kratom fresh? 

Etc?

[Santa]

1 hour ago, Vince said:

Can you detail your experiences? 

Was the Kratom fresh? 

Etc?

The Kratom was fresh being as it's sold everywhere. I can't remember the price my missus bought it for. I just asked her and she says it varies according to the quantity. But cheap.

To chew it or drink the tea you will find it to be very bitter. For the tea try putting some honey in the mix. The bitterness of the plant is such that you'd have to be a little like a 'Bear Grylls' to stomach it

I personally drank it as tea then ate the tea leaves which had been chopped up beforehand by my missus. I dunno if I did anything wrong but I never felt anything. In fact I dunno what I was supposed to feel but it didn't happen. I've also chewed the leaves to a paste and swallowed it. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Santa

[Faraday]

I don't take it for any psycho - active effects, just for sleep & pain relief.

It's available as a capsule & a powder which encourages people to ingest it, to get high & increase the risk of addiction.

 

[Vince]

11 minutes ago, Faraday said:

I don't take it for any psycho - active effects, just for sleep & pain relief.

It's available as a capsule & a powder which encourages people to ingest it, to get high & increase the risk of addiction.

At what dose is it superific and or analgesic? 

 

 

[Vince]

32 minutes ago, Santa said:

The Kratom was fresh being as it's sold everywhere. I can't remember the price my missus bought it for. I just asked her and she says it varies according to the quantity. But cheap.

To chew it or drink the tea you will find it to be very bitter. For the tea try putting some honey in the mix. The bitterness of the plant is such that you'd have to be a little like a 'Bear Grylls' to stomach it

I don't recommend this, but I've read coca leaves are supposed to be quite bitter and are mixed with lime (if I remember correctly) to make it chewable. It's supposed to be quite bad for your teeth, so not recommended. 

Coffee is quite bitter and adding milk can make it more palatable - maybe Kratom tea w/ evaporated milk ? 

 

32 minutes ago, Santa said:

 

I personally drank it as tea then ate the tea leaves which had been chopped up beforehand by my missus. I dunno if I did anything wrong but I never felt anything. In fact I dunno what I was supposed to feel but it didn't happen. I've also chewed the leaves to a paste and swallowed it. 

Did you have an empty stomach?  But acid on an empty stomach can be harsh. 

Wondering if digestion can interfere? 

It seems the form is important, legally speaking: 

https://tpnnational.com/2021/09/10/what-you-can-and-cannot-legally-do-with-kratom-thai-justice-minister-explains/

I read about here the illegal "4x100" which boils Kratom (and adds some other drugs, really not recommended and illegal):  

https://naturespoisons.com/2014/07/01/mitragynine-kratom/

But concentration seems to push the risk of toxic effects, etc. So probably just fun to read about. 

[Faraday]

1 hour ago, Vince said:

At what dose is it superific and or analgesic? 

I really don't know; my son buys a small handful of leaves & boils them up in 5l of water. After straining it, I drink about 150ml of it for sleep.

What the actual amount of active compound is, I don't know.

There's a limited amount of info on Reddit. Perhaps, try Erowid for more...?

[Vince]

12 minutes ago, Faraday said:

I really don't know; my son buys a small handful of leaves & boils them up in 5l of water. After straining it, I drink about 150ml of it for sleep.

What the actual amount of active compound is, I don't know.

There's a limited amount of info on Reddit. Perhaps, try Erowid for more...?

A handful for 5L sounds very dilute, like a weak tea. Thanks for the info! 

[Faraday]

Information on dosage:

 

https://erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_dose.shtml

[NorskTiger]

On 1/27/2022 at 7:29 AM, Faraday said:

Information on dosage:

https://erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_dose.shtml

Kratom has a very interesting history in Thailand and was apparently banned during the war in relation to Opium production. Kratom has a huge potential in drug rehabillitation and is a good way to transition long-term addicts out of Methadone and Suboxone. 

 

  I want to design a drug-rehab clinic in Thailand and am trying to work with Thai authorities on this. 

  We are considering setting up a treatment plan that is free for Thai citizens and otherwise available to everyone else (except US and UK citizens, sorry).

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by NorskTiger
Error

[Pinetree]

34 minutes ago, NorskTiger said:

(except US and UK citizens, sorry).

Don't expect any help or support from the expat community then 

[Poolie]

42 minutes ago, NorskTiger said:

Kratom has a very interesting history in Thailand and was apparently banned during the war in relation to Opium production. Kratom has a huge potential in drug rehabillitation and is a good way to transition long-term addicts out of Methadone and Suboxone. 

  I want to design a drug-rehab clinic in Thailand and am trying to work with Thai authorities on this. 

  We are considering setting up a treatment plan that is free for Thai citizens and otherwise available to everyone else (except US and UK citizens, sorry).

Most are beyond help anyway, no loss!

[NorskTiger]

22 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Don't expect any help or support from the expat community then 

Are there only brits and Americans in the expat community? Am I missing something?

This has mostly to do with liability and is a business decision. 

[HolyCowCm]

26 minutes ago, NorskTiger said:

Are there only brits and Americans in the expat community? Am I missing something?

This has mostly to do with liability and is a business decision. 

I actually really live in Thailand and it is quite diverse on the type of expats here, so no you ar not missing anything. Might have things to do with certain areas as regions for where some stay though. You may want to look into if drug dependent foreingers are what the Thai Goverment will let in and allow treatment. Maybe if it is from an accident and the additction is from prescription medication. This may be a hard venture to pull off here. But then again you need to look into it very hard.

[Pinetree]

52 minutes ago, NorskTiger said:

Are there only brits and Americans in the expat community? Am I missing something?

This has mostly to do with liability and is a business decision. 

So you sell it to a German who sells it on to his Brit mate? 

[NorskTiger]

3 hours ago, Pinetree said:

So you sell it to a German who sells it on to his Brit mate? 

"sell"?

 

    

[Pinetree]

11 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

"sell"?

Business ?

You said it was a business decision. So you must have a plan to in some way include a large number of expats that you are apparently excluding? 

[NorskTiger]

I think you isunderstand what I mean. 

    This is not about SELLING Kratom to people like you have a medical Cannabis cafe'. 

     What I am talking about is using Kratom as THERAPY for addicts in a drug rehabillitation setting. 

     A brief scenario: 

         The "classical" methamphetamine addicts in the West tends to also have exposure to the party scene with MDMA and halucinogens. Less so with opiates, but not excempted.  The addiction to stimulants like "meth" is a very different one from opiates. However, the long-term treatmetn principles build on some similarities. 

       You have a facility in Thailand in a sheltered area with free access to urban sprawls. Clients here are already detoxed (free of drugs in their system) before arriving in Suvarmabhumi. They come for 6-12 months of residential stay where their entire character and human dignity is rebuilt. During this time, they are subject (and conscented) to giving random drug tests that are administered by Thai police and health officials. Those are reimbured accordingly and in addition the addicts submit scheduled tests at the same location. In the beginning they are confined to the center itself, but with time, they get "exposure" to the outside and gradually work-training. WE build on voluntaireism in productive and positive things like animal care; elder care and renovations. 

   Kratom has properties here which may make it useful as a substitute for Amphetamines. For sake,  let us call it a "Methadone for meth addicts". It also helps to enable quitting of nictine addeiction, which is another thing that makes overall addiction a challenge to break. Gradually they are weaned off this as well and become drug free. 

    Note that the longer a drug program goes, the more is psychological and social reprogramming needed along with career building. So many people with history of addiction can be very resourceful individuals. When they rediscover a meaningful path in life, this becomes their "new" addiction and creates miracles. The longer you can keep them in a treatmetn facility, the better the long-term outcome. It took some time to gt into addiction and it will take time to get out of it. 

     Why do local governments in European countries want this? Why would they pay thousands upon thousands of Euros to send their people there? Because they will reap a net reduction in their health expenses and get societal challenges off their concerns. 

    Thailand gets MORE revenues from abroad; Addicts get a chances to cast aside their current situation; I get immense professional satisfaction and my girlfriend gets even more things to tell her dad about. A WIN WIN WIN for all of us.  

[PattyFalcon]

Kratom is really good. But there is white, green, and red kratom. You need to understand which tea is best for you. Each of the varieties has its own varieties, which differ in effect.

[PattyFalcon]

On 1/10/2023 at 10:18 AM, PattyFalcon said:

Kratom is really good. But there is white, green, and red kratom. You need to understand which tea is best for you. Each of the varieties has its own varieties, which differ in effect.

Therefore, when choosing, you need to decide what exactly you want, for example, energy or tranquility. In any case, the benefits of kratom depend on the quality of the brew. It is worth giving preference to selected tea from mature leaves. And of course, read the description and reviews for each of the proposed varieties. As an alternative, I can also recommend kava tea. Here, too, there are some features, for example, you better know how to drink Kava. It has the effect of coffee, so you need to know the measure and method of preparation.

Edited January 12, 2023 by PattyFalcon