News Forum - Senior Thai doctor says Covid-19 could lead to long term side effects

[Stardust]

15 hours ago, Stonker said:

Reportedly "only" some 0.5% of those with Omicron die, against 5% who have serious symptoms.

So if "only" half the country get Omicron this year, that's "only" 175,000 who'll die this year in Thailand if not fully vaxxed and fully boosted.

This is the right place for insane panic spreading keybord warriors

 

[Stonker]

53 minutes ago, Ksmui said:

At least this is according to the data that I am seeing. 

I'd be very interested to know what data you're seeing that suggests Covid will stop mutating now that it's got more hosts than ever before to mutate in.

Very!!!

[Ksmui]

20 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I'd be very interested to know what data you're seeing that suggests Covid will stop mutating now that it's got more hosts than ever before to mutate in.

Very!!!

The data is the speed in which it is spreading since people will be infected with omicron, they will develop immunity which will prevent further mutations Since available hosts have been infected.  

 

forward to 19:30 

 

 

[Max1983a]

They already run out of stuffs to scare people? In other news, if you live long enough, you die ;)

[IneptoCracy]

Looks like this virus is just going to be with us forever. There is swine flu in pigs now, avian bird flu in chickens. Whats next jumbo jet or just jumbo flu?

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Ksmui said:

The data is the speed in which it is spreading since people will be infected with omicron, they will develop immunity which will prevent further mutations Since available hosts have been infected.  

forward to 19:30 

Sorry, but that's not "data"!

It's pure supposition by someone who's isn't a "specialist", has no training as a virologist at all, isn't a medical doctor, and is a retired A & E nurse who's less medically qualified than a number of those posting here ... who's already been discredited for failing to do his research properly and claiming that others had said things they hadn't!

The idea that "since people will be infected with omicron, they will develop immunity which will prevent further mutations Since available hosts have been infected" has already been shown to be a very unlikely hope since nobody's found any evidence so far that Omicron gives any immunity at all - it's a hope, but that's all it is.

If you think there's any genuine "data" or studies that support that, then PLEASE give a link to any.

I didn't look at much of the video, to be honest, but his views around the 18:00 point that "you can't die twice" and that "people who are vulnerable and people who are dying from Covid are perhaps the people who were dying from the flu in previous years and perhaps the risks are going to be comparable" and "I'm not expecting the deaths from influenza to be added to the deaths from Covid because it's the same group of people and any one individual can only die once and we're not going to lose more people than we otherwise would" give a pretty good indicator of his grasp on reality and the readily available facts.

There are 30 flu related deaths in Thailand every year - last year there were over 20,000 deaths that were Covid related - they're obviously NOT "the same group of people"! ... and if, for the sake of argument, he's correct how does he account for the excess deaths in the UK and world-wide, which is between two and three times the number of 'confirmed Covid-19 deaths'?

Short answer: he doesn't, and ignores it.

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

He then continues that "all the main brains are now agreeing", but if you look at what the few he quotes actually say that he doesn't misquote and mis-interpret, none of them agree with his view at all. His whole hypothesis that somehow Omicron and flu will merge and only cause the same number of deaths and hospitalisations just defies any sort of logic or medical knowledge - it's like reading what some of the worst offenders from the CCC say when they misrepresent a link.

[JamesR]

On 1/17/2022 at 12:17 PM, Prosaap said:

Briljant  scientist he could ask every 14 year old from europe they talk about that for more then a year now maybe he just wake up from his nap

You beat me to it.

[JamesR]

One recent report in the UK states how long-covid is affecting young children, many have had to be taken into hospital and fed on drips after the virus has caused them to have parosmia which is where people perceive the smell of food to be rotten and so they do not eat.

This is different to losing the sense of smell as was seen previously. 

[Vince]

11 hours ago, Stardust said:

Paranoia and many other mental issues we can seen as side effects of covid even without catching the virus. And what will happen to this keyboard warriors maniacs when covid becoming endemic now? They need to spread paranoia and they need to advertise to lock up all people. I recomment to send this insane covid maniacs to China there they can enjoy the absolute insane

COVID uninfected side-effects! Hilarious

[Ksmui]

16 hours ago, Stonker said:

Sorry, but that's not "data"!

It's pure supposition by someone who's isn't a "specialist", has no training as a virologist at all, isn't a medical doctor, and is a retired A & E nurse who's less medically qualified than a number of those posting here ... who's already been discredited for failing to do his research properly and claiming that others had said things they hadn't!

The idea that "since people will be infected with omicron, they will develop immunity which will prevent further mutations Since available hosts have been infected" has already been shown to be a very unlikely hope since nobody's found any evidence so far that Omicron gives any immunity at all - it's a hope, but that's all it is.

If you think there's any genuine "data" or studies that support that, then PLEASE give a link to any.

I didn't look at much of the video, to be honest, but his views around the 18:00 point that "you can't die twice" and that "people who are vulnerable and people who are dying from Covid are perhaps the people who were dying from the flu in previous years and perhaps the risks are going to be comparable" and "I'm not expecting the deaths from influenza to be added to the deaths from Covid because it's the same group of people and any one individual can only die once and we're not going to lose more people than we otherwise would" give a pretty good indicator of his grasp on reality and the readily available facts.

There are 30 flu related deaths in Thailand every year - last year there were over 20,000 deaths that were Covid related - they're obviously NOT "the same group of people"! ... and if, for the sake of argument, he's correct how does he account for the excess deaths in the UK and world-wide, which is between two and three times the number of 'confirmed Covid-19 deaths'?

Short answer: he doesn't, and ignores it.

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

He then continues that "all the main brains are now agreeing", but if you look at what the few he quotes actually say that he doesn't misquote and mis-interpret, none of them agree with his view at all. His whole hypothesis that somehow Omicron and flu will merge and only cause the same number of deaths and hospitalisations just defies any sort of logic or medical knowledge - it's like reading what some of the worst offenders from the CCC say when they misrepresent a link.

I did not see a video where he claims that flu and coronavirus will merge. Just because someone doesn’t have a PhD in virology doesn’t mean they are not capable of digesting and making valid comments on journal articles. There are plenty of nurse practitioners that are far more competent than many physicians. Stating that someone cannot evaluate research because they don’t not have a certain degree is ludicrous. Not sure who those are that are discrediting him. Would you by chance be relying on a Wikipedia article?. It’s also unfortunate that you did not watch his videos and appear to have jumped to contempt prior to investigation. In my estimation he does a good job of summarizing current articles. He’s very transparent about when he is making assumptions and or estimations and doesn’t try to hide this. Again I may have misinterpreted some of his findings. However blame me for that not him. He appears to be doing a service by dissecting studies as they are published. 
 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Ksmui

[Stonker]

6 hours ago, Ksmui said:

I did not see a video where he claims that flu and coronavirus will merge. Just because someone doesn’t have a PhD in virology doesn’t mean they are not capable of digesting and making valid comments on journal articles. There are plenty of nurse practitioners that are far more competent than many physicians. Stating that someone cannot evaluate research because they don’t not have a certain degree is ludicrous. Not sure who those are that are discrediting him. Would you by chance be relying on a Wikipedia article?. It’s also unfortunate that you did not watch his videos and appear to have jumped to contempt prior to investigation. 
 

The quotes I gave are from the video you posted!

They're direct, unedited quotes of what he said, and I even gave you the point in the video where he says it!

... and he's not a "nurse practitioner".  He has a nursing diploma and worked as an A&E nurse, although on his LinkedIn site he claims to be working part-time as a "doctor" - he doesn't specify what sort of doctor!

I'm not knocking his not having a degree in virology, but he's simply not what he suggests he is - his doctorate is in teaching, not medicine.

6 hours ago, Ksmui said:

In my estimation he does a good job of summarizing current articles.

How do you know?

Have you ever read any of the articles he summarizes?

If you have (and you can get the names and articles from his video) then you're in a position to make that sort of judgement.

I read three of the articles he "summarized" and their conclusions were markedly different, particularly in terms of degree and timeframe.

6 hours ago, Ksmui said:

He appears to be doing a service by dissecting studies as they are published. 

I strongly suggest you read some of the studies yourself and compare their conclusions to his.

[Stardust]

There are since december studies avaiable about Omicron 

https://www.businessinsider.com/omicron-hospitalization-rate-about-10-of-delta-south-africa-minister-2021-12

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/world/africa/171221/south-africa-hospitalization-rate-falls-91-in-omicron-wave.html

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/safrican-study-suggests-omicron-less-severe-even-unvaccinated-2022-01-14/

It shows clearly the differences between former variants and the cases of the ltc are from the delta variants and other former variants!

[Stardust]

1 minute ago, Stardust said:

There are since december studies avaiable about Omicron 

https://www.businessinsider.com/omicron-hospitalization-rate-about-10-of-delta-south-africa-minister-2021-12

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/world/africa/171221/south-africa-hospitalization-rate-falls-91-in-omicron-wave.html

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/safrican-study-suggests-omicron-less-severe-even-unvaccinated-2022-01-14/

It shows clearly the differences between former variants and the cases of the ltc are from the delta variants and other former variants!

Hospitalization rate falls 91% with Omicron this are the official reports and studies!

[Stonker]

19 hours ago, JamesR said:

One recent report in the UK states how long-covid is affecting young children, many have had to be taken into hospital and fed on drips after the virus has caused them to have parosmia which is where people perceive the smell of food to be rotten and so they do not eat.

This is different to losing the sense of smell as was seen previously. 

Another very recent report is that those who don't have 'Long Covid' and may only have mild symptoms can suffer from memory loss, a lack of attention, and a loss of cognitive function for up to nine months - and often they may not even realise it.

That's pretty worrying for people like bus drivers and pilots who think they've made a full recovery or only had a cold - and a lot more worrying for their passengers !

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/covid-oxford-university-b1995706.html

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Stardust said:

Hospitalization rate falls 91% with Omicron this are the official reports and studies!

The UK "recorded 438 new deaths from the Coronavirus" yesterday - the highest since February last year.

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk-daily-covid-deaths-omicron-highest-february-2021-1409121

Given the prevalence of Omicron in the UK and that recorded Covid deaths are within 28 days of testing positive, many if not the vast majority will have been Omicron.

The average age in Thailand is very similar to the UK - and very different to S Africa.

[Stonker]

8 minutes ago, Transam said:

I've been like that for years.....

 ... but you know about it .

I can't help wondering if some here who've had Covid and reported no ill effects don't know ...

[oldschooler]

I pay attention to newspaper articles by western professors of virology or epidemiology (preferred source) , Western medical institutes published papers, Wikipedia or to limited well informed posters here. I follow govt. rules. Otherwise, I couldn’t care less about what govts. or former nurses or talking heads or anybody else says on Covid. Poor use of my time. 

[Alavan]

On 1/18/2022 at 5:44 AM, Ksmui said:

I’m looking at data from the UK, and the United States in which 95+ percent of all Covid cases are Omicron as of today. The deaths due to Covid now are remaining Delta cases from December including those that are immunocompromise and or have underlying conditions. I’m not sure of the ratio in Thailand and or France. The other thing to consider is that omicron is spreading so quickly that there is likely a data lag. Additionally, a high percentage of people that have Omicron  do not even bother testing or presenting in any clinical setting. They merely think it’s just a cold. 

In Belgium 15% of the new Covid cases is delta, and that is stable. The hope is that it will diminue, but the fear excists that delta will rise again.

[JamesR]

5 hours ago, Stonker said:

Another very recent report is that those who don't have 'Long Covid' and may only have mild symptoms can suffer from memory loss, a lack of attention, and a loss of cognitive function for up to nine months - and often they may not even realise it.

That's pretty worrying for people like bus drivers and pilots who think they've made a full recovery or only had a cold - and a lot more worrying for their passengers !

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/covid-oxford-university-b1995706.html

What did you say, can you repeat it please.

[Rain]

On 1/17/2022 at 9:37 PM, Stonker said:

I'd be very interested to know what data you're seeing that suggests Covid will stop mutating now that it's got more hosts than ever before to mutate in.

Very!!!

Actually, as history has shown, we never know what viruses will do, how much they mutate, when [or if] they die out, etc.

Largely - always been guess work, speculative matters and hearsay - 

[Vince]

1 minute ago, Rain said:

Actually, as history has shown, we never know what viruses will do, how much they mutate, when [or if] they die out, etc.

Largely - always been guess work, speculative matters and hearsay - 

Yes and no. Early on it was noted that viruses mutate into weaker forms. 

This makes sense. 

If the opposite was true, the earth would be filled with million+ year old super viruses of immeasurable lethality and strength!!!!! 

The weak Omicron variant was predicted in news stories about 2 years ago if memory serves. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimal_virulence

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Vince said:

Yes and no. Early on it was noted that viruses mutate into weaker forms. 

This makes sense. 

If the opposite was true, the earth would be filled with million+ year old super viruses of immeasurable lethality and strength!!!!! 

The weak Omicron variant was predicted in news stories about 2 years ago if memory serves. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimal_virulence

I don't think Delta was a weaker form ...

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, JamesR said:

What did you say, can you repeat it please.

Sorry, repeat what ?

[Vince]

2 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I don't think Delta was a weaker form ...

I never said it was. 

[Stonker]

12 minutes ago, Vince said:

19 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I don't think Delta was a weaker form ...

I never said it was. 

Well ...

1 hour ago, Vince said:

Early on it was noted that viruses mutate into weaker forms.